Some dweeb nobody knows whines about food in America

[Checkmite]

Didn't by chance ever learned to spell lo mein?

Probably; but like the recipe itself, the name was so unimpressive that I simply forgot the spelling.

 

[Checkmite]

Count me as one who doesn't understand why eating locally is cheaper.

I for one can't see how it's possibly true. Locally-produced honey certainly costs more than imported or mass-produced honey.

 

[Darat]

Being an American who eats unhealthy food ought to qualify me nicely. "Takes one to know one", if you will.



I don't live in the UK, so I have honestly no idea. And again, I choose to remain dubious on whether students actually "embraced" this program or merely resigned themselves to it.

I think this is were you keep missing the point of his work in UK schools, it is not a matter of the kids "embracing it", because that is not how we acquire a taste for different foods.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

I for one can't see how it's possibly true. Locally-produced honey certainly costs more than imported or mass-produced honey.

It is a broad based generalization, not an always true statement. There are foods that cannot be produced at lower cost locally. Government or corporate subsidies can interfere with pricing. Certain foods can be harvested in one location better than other. The more intensive the labor required the more likely it can be produced cheaper far afield in an economically weaker country. To keep costs down it is important to focus on those foods that can be produced locally at less cost and to purchase from retailers that eliminate a portion of the distribution network.

We can go back and forth giving examples of foods that either are more expensive when produced locally or less expensive when produced locally. Both exist. To fully gain advantage of the lower cost some level of variety must be sacrificed in the materials selected. This is another reason that greater knowledge of cooking is useful, to strengthen variety of the end result with a lesser variety of raw materials.

 

[GlennB]

I've eaten several times in his father's restaurant - it's very good. In fact the last time I ate there, I had the lamb's liver on a bed of mashed potato and black pudding

mmmmmm with gravy and bacon I hope?

A little known fact is that Brit black pudding has led to many producers being appointed to the French saucisson-makers' hall of fame. They can't get enough of it.

 

[Checkmite]

I think this is were you keep missing the point of his work in UK schools, it is not a matter of the kids "embracing it", because that is not how we acquire a taste for different foods.

What?

Are you particularly fond of hosomaki? Or any other kind of sushi? I love hosomaki. I honestly could eat it every day, I love it so much. I don't, of course - in fact I think I might have it once or twice a year at most - but I would eat it every day.

As a child, I never ate or tried sushi, ever. I was taught that sushi is raw fish, and the idea of eating raw fish revolted me.

And then one day I was suddenly grown up, and I saw a Japanese restaurant, stopped, and decided for some ungodly reason to try the sushi (the waiter recommended hosomaki), and I've been hooked ever since.

That's how we acquire a taste for different foods. Of our own volition, we decide to give them a try.

At it's base, there's nothing ignoble about what this Oliver guy wants to do. And everybody keeps asking, "what's the problem?" The problem is compelling people to do something that should be optional because we think there are "right options" and "wrong options", and we don't trust people to choose the "right options" on their own. All that complete nonsense like, "oh well if we sell pizza then some kids will eat it every single day because that's all they know how to eat", and similar-spirited notions which form the basis behind this "program".

As far as simply using "real chicken breast" for chicken sandwiches as opposed to "minced, formed chicken" - well hell, I'm all for that - but you're never going to be able to get that to fly in the US. That will raise the school district's food costs by hundreds of thousands of dollars a year; and if there's one thing that Americans hate more than anything else, including evil Muslims, it's taxes. Communities have quite literally let their schools fall into disrepair and ruin rather than vote for a tax increase to support them. Schools in the US just can't afford to use non-institutional food service.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

The option to eat unhealthy always remains. There is a difference between encouraging healthy options and demanding only healthy options. This is about schools educating children on eating habits and cooking. If it does not take it does not take. The children will not be prevented from graduating if they choose to eat fast food in the cafeteria instead. Even though schools demand participation in gym class students have a choice not to exercise outside of school. The education about eating habits and cooking is even less demanding than the gym requirements. A student can fail gym class for failure to participate in the exercises. I have not heard any adults complain about this. Such complaints likely exist somewhere though. No one is proposing that children who refuse to eat these meals they are taught how to make be failed. When I took cooking classes in middle school, eating the food was not mandatory. We mostly learned how to cook sweet things such as crepes, cookies and banana bread and I like most food so I had no problem eating all of my schoolwork and then some.

To me this complaint of forcing children to eat this food sounds contrary to what is being proposed. The school will not be forcing the children to eat anything, though parents may choose to do so. Which is already the case. Part of the suggestion is to no longer have schools enabling poor habits, subsidizing them over healthier choices even.

 

[Ashles]

Would it help if I said that, on-screen, at least, he comes across as a fat-tongued Mockney twat?

I don't know about Darat but that certainly helped me. Thank you. He does.

 

[Cavemonster]

I for one can't see how it's possibly true. Locally-produced honey certainly costs more than imported or mass-produced honey.

See this post for some of the answer.

You're right that for many foods, the economies of scale or the low production costs make factory farmed, long range shipped options cheaper. But this doesn't hold across all foods and it often doesn't hold for the same quality.

Take your honey as an example, the cheap mass produced honey is going to be blended, pasturized, and not fresh. It isn't bad honey, but the stuff you'll get locally is more likely akin to the high price gourmet honey you'd see at an upscale food store, and generally will beat that price.

Small local farms don't always compete directly with cheap imported foods in the same way that local bakeries don't compete with Hostess. They just don't offer those lower quality items. Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy a Hostess cupcake from time to time.

Across similar quality of items, local farms lack of shipping, advertising and middle management overhead, along with other economies and advantages of small scale, can often more than compensate for the economies of scale of large producers.

 

[Checkmite]

Take your honey as an example, the cheap mass produced honey is going to be blended, pasturized, and not fresh. It isn't bad honey, but the stuff you'll get locally is more likely akin to the high price gourmet honey you'd see at an upscale food store, and generally will beat that price.

As a brief aside - YMMV, but the stuff I get locally absolutely surpasses any "gourmet" product you can find at some ritzy grocery.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Which is another factor. Sometimes local product will be of such quality and reputation that the market surpasses anything mass produced in a far away locale. I see this with a number of dairy products.

 

[pgwenthold]

When I was in grade school, we were provided relatively healthy meals, always with vegetable and fruit options. Moreover, we actually had to eat some of said vegetables and fruits before we were allowed to go out for recess.

All it did for me was to make me despise peaches, pears, and green beans.

It took me 30 years before I could eat green beans again, and I actually kind of like green beans now, although I still can't stand pears or peaches (it's a texture thing)

 

[tsig]

Same type of comments he got here when he tried to make a difference, thankfully he didn't let them deter him.

Most preachers are like that.

 

[tsig]

Whether from design or not his approach seems to be in line with how we understand people's eating habits are formed, I suspect that is why it is showing results.

Can you cite any of those results?

 

[rwguinn]

Great.
Not only do we have professional politicians (in the meaning of "make a living from being a politician") telling us they know what's best for us, we got ferriners doing the same thing.
But if we interfere in one little country, we are evil.
goe Away!

 

[tsig]

I believe that there are concerns that the increase of life expectancy my mother's generation has experienced (she was born during WWII so was raised until her teen years on a strictly rationed diet) is not going to be seen in my generation. (My generation, in the the UK at least, was the first that can be said to have been brought up when there were widely available "processed" and "fast" food).

"Processed" and "fast" food is a very recent change to our diet, we have still to see what effect (if any of course) it will have on such things as life expectancy.

I'm sure that in the long run they will kill us all.

 

[tsig]

(forcibly)??

Once the kids learn (forcibly) that spinach doesn't suck, they'll be more likely to eat it elsewhere. I.e. they're learning better eating habits, which is healthier.

.

We force down their throat til they grow to love it?

 

[Ysidro]

Great.
Not only do we have professional politicians (in the meaning of "make a living from being a politician") telling us they know what's best for us, we got ferriners doing the same thing.
But if we interfere in one little country, we are evil.
goe Away!

Go back to sleep, Grandpa!

 

[Ambrosia]

As a child, I never ate or tried sushi, ever. I was taught that sushi is raw fish, and the idea of eating raw fish revolted me.

Sushi is rice, a specific type of rice that it takes sushi chefs several years to learn how to wash prepare and cook.

I do find it amusing that so many people baulk at the idea of eating raw fish, and yet love eating smoked salmon, which is cold smoked, and "raw" for most intents and purposes.

 

[tsig]

he wants kids to have good food, not food that is the cheapest possible to make it palatable. When they have chicken he wants the kids to have chicken meat - not any flesh from a chicken rendered into a mush and then pressed out into "drumstick" shapes and labelled "chicken dippers". He is not about making them eat chickpeas with tofu! (ETA) Although he may add chickpeas to a recipe or offer a tofu based dish in the menu occasionally.

When did food become a moral issue?

But wait, you just mean good in the sense of more healthy right? And you're absolutely sure that more veggeis = more health.