The Freeman Movement and England

Status
Not open for further replies.
So, if I refuse to consent to contract with Freemen, does that mean that I can do anything I want to them? I mean, if one like buys the last danish or something, I could just take it from them, right?
 
No: he won't have a danish
Cos he won't have any money
Cos it is not free to have money
It is tyrrany in fact
 
Pure_Argent said:
Really? So were the Allies in the wrong simply because they won the war through military force? Was the Union in the wrong because their army was the stronger? Again all you do is engage in fighting. Did you not read what I wrote. The amount of crap that came from might is right amounted to the deaths of untold innocents. You say might is right. Therefore you agree with the death of innocents.



If you declare your debts to society null and void, you have stolen from that society by reaping benefits which you did not pay for. I have no debt to society. In this society all debts are cleared. Thus, I owe nothing and can leave as and when I wish regardless of you wanting me to stay. You must have no family and no friends due to you worrying about everyone leaving you. In your society of one, what fun!



Those whom you have stolen from, and their governmental representatives. After all, they are members of a society, and societies protect their own.You have now accused me of stealing please provide evidence of the theft or retract your comment.



You are very deluded. You are more limited and deluded than I. Care to throw anymore.



Very deluded. Governments exist as collectives of humans. Denying their existence is the very height of stupidity. Governments exist only for those who wish to be governed.



Again, by residing in the area under this government's jurisdiction, you agree to abide by their rules in exchange for the benefits they provide. If you accept the benefits, you are required to pay. You can't walk into a McDonald's, grab a Big Mac and waltz out because you never signed a contract. If someone walked out of MacDonald's without paying for the item, this would amount to theft. Thank you for agreeing with the freeman concept of loss. The government has no area of jurisdiction other than for those that wish to be governed.



I never said that you didn't have the opportunity to leave. But you are not attempting to leaveThere is no need for me to leave.. You are attempting to stay, but without the obligation to payDid I say that I have no obligation to pay? If so please state where or retract your comment. It is you who are now making up quotes. As I have said I negotiate my own contract with every other party and all debts have always been and will continue to be settled. You expect for police protection Once again you are saying what I expect. Please provide evidence that I have said that I expect Police protection. The fact is only this I expect a peace officer to do his job (which is not enforcing Statute)and other societal benefits Again proof requiredto extend to you while at the same time keeping yourself exempt from taxation. There is no need to tax me. As I have repeatedly said, all my debts are settled at the time of contract.



The issue is there, whether you want it to be or not. You cannot magically make it disappear. You have the issue, it belongs to you, not I.



You are the one who appears to be harboring delusions that everything must be fairThis is not a delusion but actuality. Life should be fair for all, it is not because of people like you who need authority over others. Which is a very childish outlook.. In fact, things are very rarely, if ever, fair, and only children believe that they are or will be. There are always discrepancies in favor of one side or another. As part of the adult world, you are expected to accept this. Are you ordering me to accept this. I accept you can order me to do this and all other things upon proof of claim.



What makes you think we would want you back Thank you for acknowledging my leaving, but I left a long time ago, my body is still here though so physically I haven't gone anywhere. I just no longer do what you do and think the way you do.? You are misinterpreting what I said. Not at all, it is you who is trying to speak for me
If you leave a society without paying your debts, you have committed thievery Are you intellectually challenged? Bring proof of your claim that I have stolen anything or retract your claim. Simple! All debts are paid. End of!, and can therefore expect those who were wronged Who was this again?to come after you for collection of what is due themWhat was due again?. They may bring you back, yes From where? Where did my body go? Or are you talking about the way I think? If so are you considering altering the way people think Mr. Orwell., but their primary concern is going to be collection of whatever fees you left unpaid.Sorry, didn't get that! What was this magical debt?



You very obviously have never read Terry Pratchett's Discworld series Please get a real life, go try the Biography about Che Guevara.. While it is, indeed, fiction (even fantasy), it is very emphatically an adult series. It is philosophy, political commentary, and satire all wrapped up in a fantastic gift for storytelling I don't tell stories. Just fact..
I won't go any further into this, as it's a derail, but I sincerely encourage you to go to your local library and pick up a copy of Night Watch, Thud!, Reaper Man or Hogfather. I guarantee that you will not regret it. They are fantastic reads.No thanks. Thanks anyway!



I wasn't talking about that. You stated that humans couldn't own anything, as it doesn't "really" belong to us. But we humans are the ones deciding what belongs to whomNo, you just think you are, pretending to do so.. There isn't anyone else around that's going to do it for us. People need to just be left alone to get on. I don't need you or anyone else telling me how to live my life as long as I cause no harm or loss everthing's all okay.



Debt always exists in any economic system I have no debt. Established and entrenched is that fact.. Thinking otherwise betrays a gross misunderstanding of basic principles. Thinking is what you need to practice and start yourself.



I'm telling you that there are some things that you can do and some things that you cannot do You are telling me. How so, on whose authority? How does this work as long as I cause you no harm or loss. I won't touch you or make you do anything you don't want to do and as long as you don't cause harm or loss to me. . Are you telling me that there aren't? See previous answer.?
Click to expand...

Care to respond? Please also bring proof of what you have accused me of or retract your claim!
 
Could you start formatting your replies correctly? This "red text in a quote box" thing is really not easy to read.
 
@AA: you are trading on the different meanings of the word "right". You must know that. Please stop
 
Sledge said:
Could you start formatting your replies correctly? This "red text in a quote box" thing is really not easy to read.
Click to expand...

My apologies though. I'm unsure as to how to use the format option. I had other things to do with my time. If you'd care for a quick tip I'll try on the next one. Please still respond and bring your proof of claim or retract.
 
Arthur Asky's gibberish doesn't convince me of anything. For "proof of claim" see above. Honestly, the red text in the quote box is enough to ignore him.
 
Fiona said:
@AA: you are trading on the different meanings of the word "right". You must know that. Please stop
Click to expand...

Right as in the opposite of wrong. My right which is inalienable when I cause no harm or loss. Struggling with this are you! Enjoy your society! :boxedin:
 
Arthur Asky said:
Right as in the opposite of wrong. My right which is inalienable when I cause no harm or loss. Struggling with this are you! Enjoy your society! :boxedin:
Click to expand...

No I am not struggling with anything; but this response once again shows that you are trading on ambiguity. Do please stop it, it is not helpful and comes across as dishonest
 
remirol said:
In Freeman society, who's going to make me do this if I don't want to?
Click to expand...

A peace officer. Who is unconcerned with Statute as he or she is all about remedy not financial movement. :boxedin:Pleas come outside it's nice here. Leave your chains at the door though please. Offer of contract!
 
Arthur Asky said:
You say might is right. Therefore you agree with the death of innocents.
Click to expand...
Who won the world wars? How did they do it?


You have now accused me of stealing
Click to expand...
Please learn to infer context, it will save you appearing more foolish.


Governments exist only for those who wish to be governed.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately for you, democratic government only requires a majority to want to be governed. Everyone else gets to leave or wait until the next election to express their political opinion.


Please get a real life, go try the Biography about Che Guevara
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure there aren't any wizzards in that, or anthropomorphic personifications.
 
Fiona said:
No I am not struggling with anything; but this response once again shows that you are trading on ambiguity. Do please stop it, it is not helpful and comes across as dishonest
Click to expand...

No ambiguity here. Statute is ambiguity. You are hardly a destroyer of threads.

Please don't struggle. Swim faster! :boxedin:
 
Why don't you look at a dictionary if you honestly don't know the meanings of the word "right", AA?
 
Arthur Asky said:
Did you not read what I wrote. The amount of crap that came from might is right amounted to the deaths of untold innocents. You say might is right. Therefore you agree with the death of innocents.

I have no debt to society. In this society all debts are cleared. Thus, I owe nothing and can leave as and when I wish regardless of you wanting me to stay. You must have no family and no friends due to you worrying about everyone leaving you. In your society of one, what fun!

You have now accused me of stealing please provide evidence of the theft or retract your comment.

You are more limited and deluded than I. Care to throw anymore.

Governments exist only for those who wish to be governed.

If someone walked out of MacDonald's without paying for the item, this would amount to theft. Thank you for agreeing with the freeman concept of loss. The government has no area of jurisdiction other than for those that wish to be governed.

There is no need for me to leave.

Did I say that I have no obligation to pay? If so please state where or retract your comment. It is you who are now making up quotes. As I have said I negotiate my own contract with every other party and all debts have always been and will continue to be settled

Once again you are saying what I expect. Please provide evidence that I have said that I expect Police protection. The fact is only this I expect a peace officer to do his job (which is not enforcing Statute)

Again proof required

There is no need to tax me. As I have repeatedly said, all my debts are settled at the time of contract.

You have the issue, it belongs to you, not I.

This is not a delusion but actuality. Life should be fair for all, it is not because of people like you who need authority over others. Which is a very childish outlook.

Are you ordering me to accept this. I accept you can order me to do this and all other things upon proof of claim.

Thank you for acknowledging my leaving, but I left a long time ago, my body is still here though so physically I haven't gone anywhere. I just no longer do what you do and think the way you do.

Not at all, it is you who is trying to speak for me

Are you intellectually challenged? Bring proof of your claim that I have stolen anything or retract your claim. Simple! All debts are paid. End of!

From where? Where did my body go? Or are you talking about the way I think? If so are you considering altering the way people think Mr. Orwell.

Sorry, didn't get that! What was this magical debt?

Please get a real life, go try the Biography about Che Guevara.

I don't tell stories. Just fact.

No thanks. Thanks anyway!

No, you just think you are, pretending to do so.

People need to just be left alone to get on. I don't need you or anyone else telling me how to live my life as long as I cause no harm or loss everthing's all okay.

I have no debt. Established and entrenched is that fact.

Thinking is what you need to practice and start yourself.

You are telling me. How so, on whose authority? How does this work as long as I cause you no harm or loss. I won't touch you or make you do anything you don't want to do and as long as you don't cause harm or loss to me.

Care to respond? Please also bring proof of what you have accused me of or retract your claim!
Click to expand...

Don't worry, Arthur, I'm going to respond. I don't really have anything better to do. I'm dropping my usual posting style, as it's causing the conversation to split off into so many side paths that it's becoming impossible to keep track of everything.

Now, to start, about the Discworld books: I don't really care whether you read them or not. If philosophical satire isn't your cup of tea, then fine - I'm not going to force you to read something you don't want to. However, bashing on the series for being "childish" when you haven't read it is not only stupid, it also has no bearing on this thread in the slightest, so let's let it drop.

"Might makes right" equals "the death of innocents"... really? Is that what you think? Does might not also equal the strength to defend yourself from the totalitarian aggressor? To free the slaves? To break the chains, to defend those who cannot defend themselves? You have a very simplistic view of might.

You may assert that you have not stolen anything, Arthur, and I can't prove that you have, for the simple fact that I don't know how far into the whole Freeman nonsense you have gone. If you are merely contemplating it on forums such as this one, then you have stolen nothing; however, the entire Freeman system is one based upon theft.
You dwell in your home, purchased from the government, being watched over by a police force, employed by the government, and brought electricity, heat and water, which are regulated by the government. Your food is purified to standards which the government enforces. You are not run down in the streets because of rules, enforced by the government, on the operation of motor vehicles. Virtually every single positive thing about your society - even things so small that you never noticed them, such as having your trash taken away every week - comes from the government. Unless you are living on your own in a completely self-sustaining home, you benefit from the rules which the government enforces. And Freeman principles declare that you can continue this without having to put something back in. By simply declaring yourself a "sovereign", you believe that you can eliminate everything that you owe to your society and yet continue to benefit.
If you have truly become a Freeman and progressed to the point where you are no longer paying taxes or other bills, then you are stealing. Your taxes pay for the maintenance of roads, and you have ceased paying them - yet you continue to benefit from well-maintained roads. Your taxes pay for the salaries of the police force, and you have ceased paying them - yet you expect someone to do something if someone wrongs you. Your taxes pay for the maintenance of medical facilities, and you have ceased paying them - yet if you get into a car accident and are taken to the hospital, you expect treatment.
Simply declaring yourself to be debt-free is not enough. As long as you live in your area, you benefit from these rules, and you are expected to pay for these benefits. If you do not wish to have to pay, then remove yourself from society in its entirety. Go out into the Nevada deserts somewhere and live off of cactus juice and lizards. Until such time as you do this, if you are not paying for the benefits which you enjoy, you are stealing. The people around you continue to grant you the benefits in faith that you have paid for them. Police will attempt to save you if you are ever taken hostage. Medics will attempt to save your life if you are ever in a car accident. Your food remains purified, your roads paved - all of it in good faith that you are upholding your end of the bargain. If you are not, then you have not only stolen from society, you have committed fraud against those around you.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom