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Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

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Kestrel said:
Meredith left the house of Robyn Butterworth at about 20:55 on the night of Nov. 1. She walked with Sophie Purton for about 5 minutes, then left Sophie to walk the rest of the way to the cottage alone. This would also be about a 5 minute walk. Knowing that she was killed at the cottage, it had to have been after 21:05.
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I should also mention that the car park camera picked up an image of a female figure crossing the street to the cottage that night. The time given by the police for this was 8:43, but they were assuming the clock was 10 minutes fast. Taking the defense position that the clock was 10 minutes slow, the time lines up with when Meredith returned to the cottage. Look at this location on Google Maps and you will see the driveway for the cottage is right across the street from the parking lot.
 
colonelhall said:
I've been away for a while, but it looks as if the phone call issue still hasn't been resolved. Talking about the phones, have you discussed the possible reason for their removal from the flat?
My understanding is that they were thrown over the wall into obscurity and that it was either stupidity or poor aim that saw them land in the garden below. I was reflecting on why the phones were taken and then disposed of and then realised that AK and RS needed to show that they had tried to contact Amanda. They could not have done this, if her phone was going to be heard in the flat. Seems to be the simplest explanation, but I am sure that you have wound this one up a long way back.
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An alternative is that Rudy Guede pocketed them. Then realized later, perhaps when a picture message arrived for Meredith at 22:13, that if someone found him with these phones he would be connected to the murder. A week earlier, he had been caught with a stolen cell phone and laptop that connected him to a burglary. So he tossed them in what looked like a ravine from the road, but turned out to be a garden.

ETA: The cell phones were discarded just about here. Turn around and look at the stairs behind you. These lead up to a gate in the city walls. It's only a short distance from where Rudy lives.
 
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Kestrel said:
I should also mention that the car park camera picked up an image of a female figure crossing the street to the cottage that night. The time given by the police for this was 8:43, but they were assuming the clock was 10 minutes fast. Taking the defense position that the clock was 10 minutes slow, the time lines up with when Meredith returned to the cottage. Look at this location on Google Maps and you will see the driveway for the cottage is right across the street from the parking lot.
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Actually, the time generally regarded for Meredith arriving home was 9:15. As for the video, that is not Meredith in the video. Meredith was wearing dark clothing, including jeans, on the night in question.
 
Kestrel said:
An alternative is that Rudy Guede pocketed them. Then realized later, perhaps when a picture message arrived for Meredith at 22:13, that if someone found him with these phones he would be connected to the murder. A week earlier, he had been caught with a stolen cell phone and laptop that connected him to a burglary. So he tossed them in what looked like a ravine from the road, but turned out to be a garden.

ETA: The cell phones were discarded just about here. Turn around and look at the stairs behind you. These lead up to a gate in the city walls. It's only a short distance from where Rudy lives.
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Yet no knife or keys discarded with the phones? How come? No micro traces of blood on the phones, from someone we know had hands covered in blood when he was at the cottage. How come? Why did he take the phones in the first place and aside from the money, leave everything else of value, including Meredith's I-pod (and we know Rudy likes I-pods). How come?

You are also wrong about the gate in the wall. The gate is locked every evening at 8 PM sharp. As a resident, Rudy would have been well aware of this. As students who hadn't lived in Perugia for very long, it is not so unlikely that Amanda and/or Raffaele were not aware of this.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Yet no knife or keys discarded with the phones? How come? No micro traces of blood on the phones, from someone we know had hands covered in blood when he was at the cottage. How come? Why did he take the phones in the first place and aside from the money, leave everything else of value, including Meredith's I-pod (and we know Rudy likes I-pods). How come?
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You are assuming that Rudy picked up the phones while his hands were covered in blood. He could have picked them up before the murder or after washing off his hands.

You also seem to have forgotten that Rudy didn't have a cell phone. The one he had a week earlier had been confiscated by the Milan police.

Fulcanelli said:
You are also wrong about the gate in the wall. The gate is locked every evening at 8 PM sharp. As a resident, Rudy would have been well aware of this. As students who hadn't lived in Perugia for very long, it is not so unlikely that Amanda and/or Raffaele were not aware of this.
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Rudy could have forgotten when the gate was locked. He wasn't exactly the kind of guy that took long evening walks in the countryside. Besides, it's not a long walk to the next gate that is left open 24 hours a day.
 
Fulcanelli said:
Actually, the time generally regarded for Meredith arriving home was 9:15. As for the video, that is not Meredith in the video. Meredith was wearing dark clothing, including jeans, on the night in question.
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If it isn't Meredith in the video, who else would be visiting the cottage at that time? Computer evidence shows AK and RS are still at his place. The other two flatmates are out of town. The cottage is the only building on that side of the street. There isn't a sidewalk or even room for one. There is no reason for anyone except cottage visitors to cross the street at that location.

Do you have evidence proving what Meredith was wearing at dinner with Robyn and Sophie?
 
Kestrel said:
You are assuming that Rudy picked up the phones while his hands were covered in blood. He could have picked them up before the murder or after washing off his hands.

You also seem to have forgotten that Rudy didn't have a cell phone. The one he had a week earlier had been confiscated by the Milan police.



Rudy could have forgotten when the gate was locked. He wasn't exactly the kind of guy that took long evening walks in the countryside. Besides, it's not a long walk to the next gate that is left open 24 hours a day.
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Why would he do so after washing his hands? He touched several things in the room when his hands were bloody, why not the phones at that time? Why go and wash his hands only to go back in the room again right after and risk getting them bloody again? Why do none of his bloody footprints lead to the bathroom from his supposedly going to wash his hands? Finally, Rudy admitted going into the small bathroom in order to get another towel, so clearly his soles were not bloody at that point. That probably happened during the process of getting close to Meredith when he tried to apply the towel to the wound. But then according to Rudy, he left the bedroom and the cottage immediately, he didn't enter to wash his hands but washed and changed when he got home. I see absolutely no reason he would have had to lie about that. Also, his footprints leading from Meredith's room and straight out the door supports that story.

Could have forgotten the gate was locked? It was the gate right at the end of his little narrow street, right by where he lived, how could he have 'forgotten' that? And for all of Rudy's faults, unlike with the other two, memory doesn't appear to be one of them.

What has not having a cell phone got to do with anything? The phones weren't taken because anyone 'wanted' them (how many phones does someone need anyway?), but to a) take them away from Meredith and b) make it appear as though there'd been a robbery ('something' has to go missing during a robbery).

It also needs pointing out, Rudy also needed a laptop as that was also confiscated from him in Milan. Yet, he left 4 perfectly good laptops behind. So, that argument doesn't really hold.
 
Kestrel said:
If it isn't Meredith in the video, who else would be visiting the cottage at that time? Computer evidence shows AK and RS are still at his place. The other two flatmates are out of town. The cottage is the only building on that side of the street. There isn't a sidewalk or even room for one. There is no reason for anyone except cottage visitors to cross the street at that location.

Do you have evidence proving what Meredith was wearing at dinner with Robyn and Sophie?
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The police suspected it was Amanda Knox.

The computer evidence does not prove that both Raffaele and Knox were at his apartment, it takes only 'one' person to interact with a computer.
 
Dan O. said:
Sorry Mr.D, I should have been more precise. I wasn't questioning your excellent work but the second half of Bob's statement interpreting the contents of this thread since you started the task.
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Actually, my comment applies to this entire thread. But nice dig anyway ;)
 
Kestrel said:
Do you have evidence proving what Meredith was wearing at dinner with Robyn and Sophie?
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You don't think Robyn and Sophie et all would have mentioned it? And are you suggesting that Meredith was 'not' wearing the dark jeans and cardigan top found next to her body and that they were perhaps 'planted' by the murderers with the clothes she had 'actually' been wearing removed from her room?

It is also well known Meredith didn't get home until much before 9:15. It simply is not possible for it to be her in the video.
 
Fulcanelli said:
You don't think Robyn and Sophie et all would have mentioned it? And are you suggesting that Meredith was 'not' wearing the dark jeans and cardigan top found next to her body and that they were perhaps 'planted' by the murderers with the clothes she had 'actually' been wearing removed from her room?
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No, I am suggesting that Meredith may have changed clothes after arriving home. Perhaps before checking on the cat and settling in to study.

Were Robyn and Sophie ever asked at the trail what Meredith wore to dinner?
 
Kestrel said:
I should also mention that the car park camera picked up an image of a female figure crossing the street to the cottage that night. The time given by the police for this was 8:43, but they were assuming the clock was 10 minutes fast. Taking the defense position that the clock was 10 minutes slow, the time lines up with when Meredith returned to the cottage. Look at this location on Google Maps and you will see the driveway for the cottage is right across the street from the parking lot.
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Uh, no, they don't. Your last post claims that she left Sofie around 9 (20:55 in a different post). So, that puts her well past the 20:53 that a 10 minute slow camera clock would indicate.

Bottom line is that we don't know who it was in the video. It could have been some unnamed 3rd party out for an evening stroll. We simply don't, and cannot, know.

Yet another point being argued that really makes no real difference to the case against Knox.

Keep trying to poke those holes though. Maybe eventually you can get to the really damning evidence.
 
Kestrel said:
Sophie testified that Meredith and her parted company at 9 PM, and it's only about a 5 minute walk from that spot to the cottage.
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No, they have reported that that walk would take them about 10 minutes. They also stopped and chatted awhile before parting halfway to Meredith's. They also left just a little after 9. This is why the official estimate of when she reached home is 9:15
 
Kestrel said:
No, I am suggesting that Meredith may have changed clothes after arriving home. Perhaps before checking on the cat and settling in to study.

Were Robyn and Sophie ever asked at the trail what Meredith wore to dinner?
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No, she didn't.

And yes, of course they were asked.

Also, Raffaele made a point of saying what Meredith was wearing that day when she left the cottage that afternoon to go to her friends.
 
Fulcanelli said:
The police suspected it was Amanda Knox.
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No, the police suspected it was Meredith Kercher.



Nick Pisa:

Grainy CCTV footage of what may have been Meredith Kercher's final walk home has been shown at the trial of two people accused of murdering her.

A series of black and white stills photographs showing a female figure with long hair walking down a slope to Meredith's house have been taken from a CCTV camera in a nearby car park.

They were timed at 8.41pm on the night Meredith was last seen alive and minutes after she had left a friend's house to return home.

Police inspector Mauro Barbadori told the court the CCTV footage had been recovered in the hope that it would provide key information.

He said: ''From the time on the film and the fact it is a female figure - the belief is that it is Meredith but it is very poor quality and we cannot say for definite.

''Hypothetically speaking it is very possible that the figure seen is Meredith returning home after spending the evening at a friend's house.''

sky news
 
BobTheDonkey said:
Uh, no, they don't. Your last post claims that she left Sofie around 9 (20:55 in a different post). So, that puts her well past the 20:53 that a 10 minute slow camera clock would indicate.

Bottom line is that we don't know who it was in the video. It could have been some unnamed 3rd party out for an evening stroll. We simply don't, and cannot, know.

Yet another point being argued that really makes no real difference to the case against Knox.

Keep trying to poke those holes though. Maybe eventually you can get to the really damning evidence.
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Well, we know 'who' wore a white skirt and it certainly wasn't Meredith ;)
 
Oliebol said:
No, the police suspected it was Meredith Kercher.



Nick Pisa:

Grainy CCTV footage of what may have been Meredith Kercher's final walk home has been shown at the trial of two people accused of murdering her.

A series of black and white stills photographs showing a female figure with long hair walking down a slope to Meredith's house have been taken from a CCTV camera in a nearby car park.

They were timed at 8.41pm on the night Meredith was last seen alive and minutes after she had left a friend's house to return home.

Police inspector Mauro Barbadori told the court the CCTV footage had been recovered in the hope that it would provide key information.

He said: ''From the time on the film and the fact it is a female figure - the belief is that it is Meredith but it is very poor quality and we cannot say for definite.

''Hypothetically speaking it is very possible that the figure seen is Meredith returning home after spending the evening at a friend's house.''

sky news
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You'll find other reports where they report it being Amanda. indeed, an Italian TV channel even did a video reconstruction video of the original video of Amanda walking to the cottage.
 
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