Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[Akhenaten]

When they talk about the pyramids being oriented towards the true north, I always wonder "but aren't they square ? And doesn't that make it more likely that this sun worship culture oriented them east-west ?"

I think youd have to understand that the dead pharoah was expected to go to the pole star, then journey across the sky to the east to reach Maat, thats why the entrance/exit to the pyramid was on the north side, besides, the sun doesnt rise directly in the east all that often

Sothis was important in funerary traditions alrighty, but the rising Sun still had its place in the scheme of things, for example in the sanctum of Ramesses little erection at Abu Simbel, and in the Solar Temples.

 

[Akhenaten]

What's that from ?

Gay Rodeo - 2035

 

[Correa Neto]

What's that from ?

If I tell you its a sooper seeckrit Mossad-NWO-Illuminati spacetimecraft with cloak, morphing and chemtrail emmition devices plus the new EMP emmiter capable of erasing DVD and CD-ROM data, I'll have to kill you. Oooops... Guess who's coming for dinner?

Relax, its actually from Mel Brooks's History of the World, Part I, teaser for part II.
"We're Jews in the spaaaaaaace!"


Damage control action successful, disinformation spreading successful. Cancel assasin schedule.

 

[Akhenaten]

rotfl

 

[King of the Americas]

Alrighty then...

I'd like to thank you "Akhenaten", for that last post. I just enjoyed it...

I would moreover like to thank "Marduk" for his genuine expertise and willingness to share, in this area of study.

JREF is my all time favorite internet resource. If someone here doesn't know the answer to one of my questions, they certainly know where to look. So, really thank all of you for your interest in my posts & retorts, it is greatly appreciated.

Now, in regards to the hatchet job you guys did on the deconstruction of my last post. I went through great efforts to avoid any specific claims that demanded refutation. I was hoping for something that we could all just agree upon. Please allow me to further explain myself.

I said:

...

The world over the ancients built huge monuments, "many" of which are aligned with astronomical movements and were built using the same basic shape. *(I stopped, right there. I didn't say EVERY monument was huge, aligned astronomically, or employed the same exact shape... If THAT were the case, I don't think there'd be no question, as to a sincere connection between two cultures.)

We have all sorts of examples, several of which have been here posted here. *(Again, no conclusions based on ill-conceived notions, just a statement of facts. There ARE examples here.)

Again, "many" of the ancient megalithic structures are similar even in the mastery of the stone work employed. Look closely at the fittings of Machu Pichu, Puma Punko, the Great Pyramid, these weren't structures thrown up over night. *(I never said anything about the materials being the same. I said that whomever did this, KNEW what they were doing, in regards to stone fittings. TODAY's construction culture is not equipped, trained, or presently capable of building these kinds of structures. We build wood framed homes, covered in brick, plaster, tile, siding, or some other protectant covering- in America. It would be easy to find a house in Maine and one in California of the same basic construction- indicating cultural contact. We no longer focus our energies producing huge stone structures. I am NOT saying that we couldn't do it, if we wanted to. Just that nowadays this isn't our thing. However, I DID say that the world over, this was the case. A long time ago, people spent a LOT of time and resources erecting masterfully connect HUGE stones. {Marduk,...Puma Punko was made of diorite, not sandstone.} My statement was that all across the world, stone mastery was not uncommon, and that many of these cultures were engaged in building long term project.)

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history. *(HERE is where the 'debate' should occur. Because I used the term "know". There are things that CAN be known for absolute certain. We can 'observe', repeatedly at what temperature distilled water freezes at sea level. KNOWING what happened yesterday, last week, last year, or a millennia ago, is another matter entirely. The building plans for the Empire State Building ARE still around. You can see every beam, bolt, board, and brick. We KNOW who designed it, and for what purpose. This documentation has escaped us, in regards to many of the ancient structures. 'Theories' based on 'shards' of historical evidence are just that 'theories'.)

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far. *(Marduk, could you post a picture of where the "Book of the Dead" was embossed on the Great Pyramid, indicating that you KNOW it's a tomb?)

I think, rather than closing the door to such notions as "lost civilizations", we should admit openly that this happened and that we don't know everything about those to erected these structures. Troy was real, before they decided to look for it. How do you expect to find something you aren't looking for? *(Here I was again hoping to open the debate door. We only have scattered bits and pieces of an "Atlantean world", this is far from proof of anything, but in my statement I propose the notion that you can't find what you aren't looking for. Meaning that we SHOULD be looking for this...)

Moreover, to conclude that ancient people had no global contact/awareness of other cultures is not something I am willing to do just yet. I'm not sure one could ever conclude that. How do you present proof of a non-event? *(I am NOT concluding ANYTHING about global contact/awareness. To say that you KNOW for absolute certain that it never happened is beyond arrogance. You MAY say, that thus far we've not seen concrete proof of such an as assertion. But it would be folly to say you KNOW it didn't happen.)

 

[Cuddles]

There are examples of contact between culture quite far apart, like Marc Opolo bringing home noodles and calling it pasta, or Roman coins and glassware appearing in Scandinavia, cobber and tin for bronze have traded over long distances.

None of those contacts were across time, or the Atlantic.

Sure, but those aren't really the kind of contacts we're talking about here. KotA appears to believe in some kind of sustained contact between many cultures spread across the whole world for at least the last 12,000 years or so. Examples of local contact from 2,000 years ago (the Roman empire was pretty much next door to Scandinavia) or the occasional explorer from less than 1,000 years ago just doesn't fit.

The people KotA unquestioningly believes basically claim that there was enough contact between people over over the whole world for millennium in order for there to be essentially a single human culture. Architecture, engineering, maths and beliefs, amongst other things, were supposedly all the same. Even today, where we have instantaneous global communication practically everywhere on Earth, that's still not the case.

Of course, given that, as already noted, there's not actually any evidence of these claimed similarities, pointing out that there's no realistic method of contact is not really the important point. Contact is an explanation looking for something to explain.

Thank you.

I don't think I'm too disappointed to discover that I don't do woo very well.

Next parody illustration will be a more random, but wowier, pattern.

In all fairness, I think your pattern was a lot more impressive than his. A bunch of wonky triangles just aren't as good as a continent sized arrow.

As dropzone pointed out, there aren't enough places in Australia on which to base complex shapes. There might be more potential with Middle Earth New Zealand.

You're thinking too big. Don't look for major landmarks, look for anything you can find that you might be able to connect with something else. Try billabongs or something, they're probably deep mystical portals to ancestral whatsits. Or sheep. You've got plenty of them, haven't you?

 

[Akhenaten]

I'd like to thank you "Akhenaten", for
that last post. I just enjoyed it...


I would moreover like to thank "Marduk" for his genuine expertise and willingness to share, in this area of study.

<snippy>

Thanks mate, but I find this post a little hard to respond to. You'll need to address posts to either Marduk or myself, since neither of us can effectively respond for the other.

I just have to point out that you need to stop saying that we've lost our ancient past. The topic of the thread is stuff that most certainly isn't lost.

ETA: And saying that we don't know how they built stuff is wrong too.

 

[Akhenaten]

<snippy>


You're thinking too big. Don't look for major landmarks, look for anything you can find that you might be able to connect with something else. Try billabongs or something, they're probably deep mystical portals to ancestral whatsits. Or sheep. You've got plenty of them, haven't you?

Billabongs have bunyips in them. That'll definitely work.

lol @ lines drawn between sheep.

 

[Akhenaten]

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far. *(Marduk, could you post a picture of where the "Book of the Dead" was embossed on the Great Pyramid, indicating that you KNOW it's a tomb?)

Actually, THIS bit I CAN answer.


This is a sarcophagus. It belongs to Pharaoh Khufu. The Great Pyramid was built around it, more or less.

 

[EHocking]

I'd ...Again, "many" of the ancient megalithic structures are similar even in the mastery of the stone work employed. Look closely at the fittings of Machu Pichu, Puma Punko, the Great Pyramid, these weren't structures thrown up over night. *(I never said anything about the materials being the same. I said that whomever did this, KNEW what they were doing, in regards to stone fittings. TODAY's construction culture is not equipped, trained, or presently capable of building these kinds of structures.

What rot.
See examples of precise modern stonemasonry joins here:
http://www.stonefoundation.org/stonexus/index1.html

...We no longer focus our energies producing huge stone structures. I am NOT saying that we couldn't do it, if we wanted to.

You contradict yourself. previously in this post you state, "TODAY's construction culture is not equipped, trained, or presently capable of building these kinds of structures".

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history.

We do - cites have been provided for you, you seem to wish to choose to ignore the evidence.

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far. *(Marduk, could you post a picture of where the "Book of the Dead" was embossed on the Great Pyramid, indicating that you KNOW it's a tomb?)

The Book of the Dead was on papyrus and inserted into sarcophagi, not embossed on pyramid walls. This is a strawman argument. Even with the most shallow scans on the Wiki article would have pointed you to Pyramid Texts^WP that the Book of the Dead is derived from and are enscribed on pyramids at Saqqara.

I think, rather than closing the door to such notions as "lost civilizations", we should admit openly that this happened and that we don't know everything about those to erected these structures.

What you should do is close the door on Von Danikenesque fantasies on what previous civilisations were able to achieve with simple human ingenuity and basic tools.

Troy was real, before they decided to look for it. How do you expect to find something you aren't looking for?

So? People looked for and found an ancient site that was written about in history. Many other legendary or historical sites have also been found. What is the point you are making?

*(Here I was again hoping to open the debate door. We only have scattered bits and pieces of an "Atlantean world", this is far from proof of anything, but in my statement I propose the notion that you can't find what you aren't looking for. Meaning that we SHOULD be looking for this...)

Not all legends or historical writings are meant to be taken as historical fact. I believe others have attempted to educate you wrt to Atlantis - it is not on a par with Troy.

Moreover, to conclude that ancient people had no global contact/awareness of other cultures is not something I am willing to do just yet.

Since there was not trans-continental transport or communication systems in the ancient world this is only your personal romantic hope.

I'm not sure one could ever conclude that.

Quite - there is nor reason or evidence to suggest it. So until some surfaces, what basis do you have for the fantastical speculations, other than fantasy?

How do you present proof of a non-event? *(I am NOT concluding ANYTHING about global contact/awareness. To say that you KNOW for absolute certain that it never happened is beyond arrogance. You MAY say, that thus far we've not seen concrete proof of such an as assertion. But it would be folly to say you KNOW it didn't happen.)

But since there is no evidence to suggest that it did, why fantasize about it, other than the titillation of fairy stories.

The thread is about actual structures and cultures, not about Hobbits, Orcs and Faeries.

 

[Correa Neto]

Woos may claim the Pharaoh just dug a hole in the pyramid and placed his sarcophagus and some grafitti there, basking on the glory of the antediluvian Atlantean giants...

 

[Akhenaten]

Mwahahaha!

You don't get to be Pharaoh by not considering what the rumour-mongers will say about you.

Of the sarcophagus:

It's size is only one centimeter smaller than the doorway leading to the chamber which leads scholars to believe that the sarcophagus was introduced during the building of the pyramid and not after its completion.

The Pyramids at Giza

 

[Wolrab]

Mwahahaha!

You don't get to be Pharaoh by not considering what the rumour-mongers will say about you.

Of the sarcophagus: It's size is only one centimeter smaller than the doorway leading to the chamber which leads scholars to believe that the sarcophagus was introduced during the building of the pyramid and not after its completion.


The Pyramids at Giza

OMG ! The ancient Egyptians used the metric system! I've also read that they were aligned with Santa's Workshop (the pyramids, not the ancient Egyptians)

 

[Correa Neto]

Mwahahaha!

You don't get to be Pharaoh by not considering what the rumour-mongers will say about you.

Of the sarcophagus:



The Pyramids at Giza

Then his minions just removed the crystals used as capacitors for positive energy left at the chamber by the wise Atlanteans, together with the crystal skulls, dumping a dead body there, hoping for ressurrection. That's why the world is became so [f-word]ed up since then!

 

[Akhenaten]

OMG ! The ancient Egyptians used the metric system!

Sorry for the confusion. I provided the new-fangled measurement but forgot the proper one.

1 centimetre = ½ db *

I've also read that they were aligned with Santa's Workshop (the pyramids, not the ancient Egyptians)

You know how low those passageways are in the Pyramids? You know how short Santa's Elves are? Do the math.

Giants indeed!


*

1 finger, db = 18¾ mm ≈ .72 inches
1 palm, šsp = 4 db = 75 mm ≈ 2.95 inches
1 hand, drt = 5 db = 93¾ mm ≈ 3.7 inches
1 fist, amm = 6 db = 112½ mm ≈4.4 inches
1 span, spd = 12 db = 225 mm ≈ 8.86 inches
1 foot, bw = 16 db = 300 mm ≈ 0.98 feet
1 remen, rmn = 20 db = 375 mm ≈ 1.23 feet
1 ordinary cubit, mh = 24 db = 6 šsp = 450 mm ≈ 1.48 feet
1 royal cubit, mh = 28 db = 7 šsp = 525 mm ≈ 1.72 feet
1 nibw = 32 db = 8 šsp = 600 mm ≈ 1.97 feet
1 double remen = 40 db = 2 rmn = 750 mm ≈ 2.46 feet
1 rod, h3yt = 280 db = 10 mh (royal) = 5.25 m ≈ 17.22 feet
1 ht, ht n nhw = 2800 db = 10 h3yt = 52.5 m ≈ 57.4 yards
1 minute of march = 9800 db = 350 mh (royal) = 183.75 m ≈ 200.85 yards
1 hour of march, atur, itrw = 588,000 db = 21,000 mh (royal) = 11.025 km ≈ 6.85 miles​

Wikipedia

 

[Akhenaten]

Then his minions just removed the crystals used as capacitors for positive energy left at the chamber by the wise Atlanteans, together with the crystal skulls, dumping a dead body there, hoping for ressurrection. That's why the world is became so [f-word]ed up since then!

The crystals were removed at some time during Dynasty XX and placed in a gold lined and plated chest, with two figures of Isis on the lid.

The Ankh of the Covenenant, as it was known, was secretly removed from Egypt by escaping Hebrew reedcutters from the Delta, who attempted to transport it across the Red Sea.

Unfortunately, their ship came to grief in an unusually high tide and the cyrstals were lost overboard. The Ankh itself washed up on the high slopes of Mount Ararat in Turkey, where it remains.

The crystals were eventually recovered by the great Atlantean King, Nemo, who forged them into the Crystal Skulls of Indianica, the interdimensional city maintained by an Arcturan expeditionary force whose headquarters are located beneath the disused blimp hangars at Chichen Itza.

Only Zahi Hawass (the resurrected Nemo of Atlantis), knows the location of Pharaoh Khufu's mummy. It will be in the Smithsonian Magazine in due course (the story, not the mummy).

 

[King of the Americas]

The people KotA unquestioningly believes basically claim that there was enough contact between people over over the whole world for millennium in order for there to be essentially a single human culture. Architecture, engineering, maths and beliefs, amongst other things, were supposedly all the same.

No, I don't. I've NEVER said anything even remotely close to that.

 

[King of the Americas]

Actually, THIS bit I CAN answer.


This is a sarcophagus. It belongs to Pharaoh Khufu. The Great Pyramid was built around it, more or less.

[qimg]http://www.yvonneclaireadams.com/HostedStuff/Khufu.jpg[/qimg]​

Maybe you misunderstood my question.

Could you please post a photo of the walls where the builders embossed the "Book of the Dead"?

I've been inside King Tutt's tomb, or at least a replica of it. If the Sphinx still has some paint lift on it SURELY the Great Pyramid has some of these grave markings that usually accompany tombs for Pharaohs.

Or maybe you could show me another example of a KNOWN tomb (complete with mummy) for a Pharaoh that also lacked the embossed Book of the Dead upon the tomb walls. From my understand sending someone off without these instructions was a sure way to screw up their afterlife.

Didn't you see "Stargate"!? That box could be a resurrection chamber.

*I'd give my life's wealth to sleep in that box overnight.

 

[tsig]

Billabongs have bunyips in them. That'll definitely work.

lol @ lines drawn between sheep.

Throw in Yowie sighting hot spots.

 

[Akhenaten]

No, I don't. I've NEVER said anything even remotely close to that.

I think sometimes you appear to align yourself a bit too closely with sources that are not only questionable, but downright horrible.

Speculation is cool, but it needs to be tempered with some common sense and research.

Another tip. Present one specualation at a time, have it dealt with, and then move on. Scattergun JAQing off is annoying, and nobodiy wants to be that.


Cheers