Ancient Pyramids and other structures, astronomical alignment & similarity.

[Cuddles]

Maybe this is where my cynicism lets me down, because I thought I was pretending to do exactly what the pattern-finding bleevers do - start with a pattern. I might have been a bit harsh.

In some cases no doubt they do. But most of the time it's rather unlikely. Aside from implying much more active dishonesty on their part, rather than just run of the mill delusions, it just doesn't make sense a lot of the time. For example, those triangles drawn on Britain. If he'd started off with a pattern and tried to fit it to something, wouldn't it look a lot more impressive than that? We've already pointed out that it's not symmetrical at all, why would someone start out with such a random, arbitrary shape and then try to fit it on somewhere? Far more reasonable is to assume that he really did just draw lots of lines between places, and it is simply that the pattern he sees is either not there, not interesting, or generally both.

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history.

Except that this is clearly complete bollocks. In many cases we know exactly who they were built by and why, and we have some pretty good ideas about how. The Egyptian pyramids are the most obvious example. They were built by the Egyptians. We even know details of the people who ordered some of them be built, and who designed them. And they were built to put dead bodies inside, for some combination of religious beliefs of an afterlife and simply having your name remembered as the guy inside the really big pointy thing. For other pyramids we have more or less information. In the Americas, for instance, we mostly know which civilisations built them but often know less about exactly who was involved.

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far.

No, what you mean is that you don't care in the slightest about proof and prefer your nonsensical imaginations. I would normally put it down to simple ignorance, since many people just don't know that much about pyramids and such. However, in your case you've had these things explained to you many times before, so if it is ignorance, it's deliberate. Based on your posts, it seems far more likely that you're not ignorant, you simply don't care in the slightest about reality.

Moreover, to conclude that ancient people had no global contact/awareness of other cultures is not something I am willing to do just yet. I'm not sure one could ever conclude that. How do you present proof of a non-event?

This is where knowledge of the burden of proof can come in handy. In the absence of any evidence suggesting something happened, the default hypothesis is that it didn't. It lies upon those suggesting that it did happen to provide evidence of such. In the case of global communication many thousands of years ago, the only evidence appears to be that pyramids are pyramid-shaped. You'll have to do a lot better than that if you expect anyone to take your claims seriously.

 

[Checkmite]

ETA: I'll ask the audience for a better guess on that last Pyramid. I don't think it's Pharaoh Khafre's, but it's definitely up around Giza somewhere.

Nah, Khafre's pyramid is the one with some of the casing still left at the top. Given the very low angle of this pyramid, I'm guessing it's Snefru's Red pyramid.

*cough*

 

[Toke]

This is where knowledge of the burden of proof can come in handy. In the absence of any evidence suggesting something happened, the default hypothesis is that it didn't. It lies upon those suggesting that it did happen to provide evidence of such. In the case of global communication many thousands of years ago, the only evidence appears to be that pyramids are pyramid-shaped. You'll have to do a lot better than that if you expect anyone to take your claims seriously.

There are examples of contact between culture quite far apart, like Marc Opolo bringing home noodles and calling it pasta, or Roman coins and glassware appearing in Scandinavia, cobber and tin for bronze have traded over long distances.

None of those contacts were across time, or the Atlantic.

 

[Marduk]

Agreed.

The world over the ancients built huge monuments, "many" of which are aligned with astronomical movements

there is nothing special about that, its normal for all cultures to build things to honour what they venerate. we even do that. But most ancient structures are not aligned to anything. You have basically cherry picked a conclusion and inferred a meaning without knowing the validity of the evidence

and were built using the same basic shape.

square and round base shapes, you mean, i.e. the two simplest known shapes

We have all sorts of examples, several of which have been here posted here.

The examples you are talking about are thousands of years apart in time and further apart in distance, made from different materials and for different purposes. There are more inconsistencies than commonalities, what you are demonstrating is pseudo history where you are placing more importance than is warranted on the few things in common.

Again, "many" of the ancient megalithic structures are similar even in the mastery of the stone work employed. Look closely at the fittings of Machu Pichu,

1430CE white granite

Puma Punko,

440CE Red sandstone

the Great Pyramid, these weren't structures thrown up over night .

2550 BCE Limestone

so all these sites are at least hundreds of years apart and are made of completely different rock. Looks like your claims are starting to collapse.

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history.

We know exactly who built them, thats been understood for decades, we know how they did it and we know why they did it and all the sites have been dated scientifically

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far.

only in pseudo history books, I suggest you stop wasting your time reading them and actually invest in some real knowledge

I think, rather than closing the door to such notions as "lost civilizations", we should admit openly that this happened

the foundation of all the cultures mentioned are fully understood and as they are millenia apart are you suggesting that the lost civilisation also had time travel ?

and that we don't know everything about those to erected these structures.

We have their bodies in our museum, we have translated their languages and fully understand how their cultures operated

Troy was real, before they decided to look for it. How do you expect to find something you aren't looking for?

The troy described by Homer was never real, archaeological excavation has proved this.
You don't know anything about Troy do you, I bet you can't even name the person who discovered it.

Moreover, to conclude that ancient people had no global contact/awareness of other cultures is not something I am willing to do just yet. I'm not sure one could ever conclude that. How do you present proof of a non-event?

you look for evidence of it, you may be surprised to hear that absence of evidence indicates evidence of absence, but I doubt at this stage in the game youd be prepared to understand what it means
face it KotA, once again youre off on a rant based on your pitiful understanding of ancient history, you don't know anything about the subject but your happy to theorise arent you, I expect you'll shortly be trying to tell us that all ancient religions worshipped extra terrestrial Gods because they all apparently (to you only) came from outer space again when in fact, none of them did
EPIC FAIL
thanks for playing

 

[Lucian]

There are examples of contact between culture quite far apart, like Marc Opolo bringing home noodles and calling it pasta, or Roman coins and glassware appearing in Scandinavia, cobber and tin for bronze have traded over long distances.

None of those contacts were across time, or the Atlantic.

Vinland (L'Anse aux Meadows) was across the Atlantic.

 

[Toke]

Vinland (L'Anse aux Meadows) was across the Atlantic.

Yes, but we don't like the mentioning that Leif discovered a whole continent without doing anything about it. There were some rumours about his bloodthirsty psycho of a sister, a battleaxe, and some of the other would be settlers.
The details are rather embarrassing, and the reason he returned to Greenland.

 

[Marduk]

Vinland (L'Anse aux Meadows) was across the Atlantic.

does slaughter count as contact ?
if so, the spanish were world leaders

 

[GT/CS]

Agreed.

The world over the ancients built huge monuments, "many" of which are aligned with astronomical movements and were built using the same basic shape.

We have all sorts of examples, several of which have been here posted here.

Again, "many" of the ancient megalithic structures are similar even in the mastery of the stone work employed. Look closely at the fittings of Machu Pichu, Puma Punko, the Great Pyramid, these weren't structures thrown up over night .

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history.

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far.

I think, rather than closing the door to such notions as "lost civilizations", we should admit openly that this happened and that we don't know everything about those to erected these structures. Troy was real, before they decided to look for it. How do you expect to find something you aren't looking for?

Moreover, to conclude that ancient people had no global contact/awareness of other cultures is not something I am willing to do just yet. I'm not sure one could ever conclude that. How do you present proof of a non-event?

Every known culture has something that resembles, and works as, a shovel but that does not mean someone traveled all around the world thousands of years ago selling shovels.

 

[jasonpatterson]

What kills me is that they don't seem to understand that the night sky moves about over time. Since the pyramids, stonehenge, etc were built, Earth has precessed a fair bit. Polaris wasn't the north star, and the constellations were not where they are now. How many things do we have to line up and in how many ways can we align them? Surely in all the mess there will be coincidental matchups.

Will idiots 1,000 years from now unearth Macedonia, OH and remark on the north-south/east-west orientation of the streets as a religious symbol?

 

[Akhenaten]

Nah, Khafre's pyramid is the one with some of the casing still left at the top. Given the very low angle of this pyramid, I'm guessing it's Snefru's Red pyramid.

*cough*

You win!

Pretty embarrassing to get the description of my own picture wrong. I was obviously on a Snefru kick when I did the triptych, but it escaped me second time around.


Thanks for the link; that was a great read.

 

[Akhenaten]

Agreed.

Eye, the Fan Bearer on the Right of the King, says that you have chosen wisely.

The world over the ancients built huge monuments, "many" of which are aligned with astronomical movements and were built using the same basic shape.

It's the logical thing to do, and logic is what makes us a coherent civilisation (more or less).

We have all sorts of examples, several of which have been here posted here.

We're actually the go-to place for this sort of thing, you know?

Again, "many" of the ancient megalithic structures are similar even in the mastery of the stone work employed. Look closely at the fittings of Machu Pichu, Puma Punko, the Great Pyramid, these weren't structures thrown up over night .

Ooh my wordy lordy no.

The other major similarity they share is that we really DON'T know who built them, how they did it, or for what reason, or even for certain when it happened. We have 'lost' our ancient history.

Aaaaaaargh!

You were going so well. The above paragraph is rubbish.

What would you like to know?

Proof as to what has happened is lacking...so far.

Aaaaaaaargh! again.

I think, rather than closing the door to such notions as "lost civilizations", we should admit openly that this happened and that we don't know everything about those to erected these structures. Troy was real, before they decided to look for it. How do you expect to find something you aren't looking for?

What 'lost' civilisations are you talking about? I know exactly, to the millimetre, where ancient Egypt is. Marduk is similarly equipped to conduct you through Mesopotamia.

Again, what would you like to know?

Moreover, to conclude that ancient people had no global contact/awareness of other cultures is not something I am willing to do just yet. I'm not sure one could ever conclude that. How do you present proof of a non-event?

Phew. Just when I thought you were about to spear in, you pulled out of a nasty dive. Now you're in more of a flat spin.

 

[Akhenaten]

In some cases no doubt they do. But most of the time it's rather unlikely. Aside from implying much more active dishonesty on their part, rather than just run of the mill delusions, it just doesn't make sense a lot of the time. For example, those triangles drawn on Britain. If he'd started off with a pattern and tried to fit it to something, wouldn't it look a lot more impressive than that? We've already pointed out that it's not symmetrical at all, why would someone start out with such a random, arbitrary shape and then try to fit it on somewhere? Far more reasonable is to assume that he really did just draw lots of lines between places, and it is simply that the pattern he sees is either not there, not interesting, or generally both.

Thank you.

I don't think I'm too disappointed to discover that I don't do woo very well.

Next parody illustration will be a more random, but wowier, pattern.

As dropzone pointed out, there aren't enough places in Australia on which to base complex shapes. There might be more potential with Middle Earth New Zealand.

 

[yomero]

does slaughter count as contact ?
if so, the spanish were world leaders

Not if you count the English. Spanish colonization in the caribbean was savage and genocidal. But it had moderating agents ( Fray Bartolome de las Casas, for example). Those islands taken by the English lost almost completely the native American population.
In Cuba a genetic study found 33% of mtDNA is of native American origin.For the Y chromosome it was 0% of the goup studied, taking into account the margin of error,it could be 2.3% or less.
Source-Genetic origin, admixture and asymetry in maternal and paternal human lineage in Cuba. Mendizabal et al.
In contrast,in the English speaking islands of the Caribbean less than 10% of the individuals belong to a non-African mitochondrial haplogroup.It isn't mentioned in the abstract I read, but I suspect most of that 10% would be of European and east Indian origin.
Source-Mitochondrial and Y chromosome diversity in the English speaking Caribbean. J. Benn Torres et al.

 

[Marduk]

Not if you count the English. Spanish colonization in the caribbean was savage and genocidal.

well thats fair, "God is Spanish" after all

 

[Akhenaten]

well thats fair, "God is Spanish" after all

I did not know that.

 

[Marduk]

I did not know that.

Si, en verdad, gracias a Dios

 

[Akhenaten]

Si, en verdad, gracias a Dios

¡Ola!

Gracias. Su dios va con usted.

 

[Belz...]

Its not theory, its fact.
And here's proof:
[qimg]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d150/AVCN/joosindaspace.jpg[/qimg]

What's that from ?

 

[Belz...]

there is nothing special about that, its normal for all cultures to build things to honour what they venerate. we even do that. But most ancient structures are not aligned to anything. You have basically cherry picked a conclusion and inferred a meaning without knowing the validity of the evidence

When they talk about the pyramids being oriented towards the true north, I always wonder "but aren't they square ? And doesn't that make it more likely that this sun worship culture oriented them east-west ?"

 

[Marduk]

When they talk about the pyramids being oriented towards the true north, I always wonder "but aren't they square ? And doesn't that make it more likely that this sun worship culture oriented them east-west ?"

I think youd have to understand that the dead pharoah was expected to go to the pole star, then journey across the sky to the east to reach Maat, thats why the entrance/exit to the pyramid was on the north side, besides, the sun doesnt rise directly in the east all that often