Has Ryan Mackey debunked Jim Hoffman

[TobiasTheViking]

The put options were placed because of a combination of falling stock prices and bad news.

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

 

[T.A.M.]

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

Well if we were to attempt to debunk it, we would also have to debunk/explain why the same stocks fell even more earlier that year...yet no terrorist attack occurred.

TAM

 

[Luntoc]

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

See here for better answers than the conspiratorial ones.
http://www.911myths.com/html/put_options.html

And here: http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Put_Options

The airline industry wasn't doing so well prior to 9/11 in 2001 either.

The stock prices for Continental Airlines were also falling as United and American's were. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=CAL&a=00&b=01&c=2001&d=08&e=10&f=2001&g=w

Continental earns a profit for the third quarter of 2001 but only because they received aid from the government. Otherwise they would've reported losses.
http://www.continental.com/web/en-U...ntent/company/news/release/2001-10-31-01.html

If planes from cotinental airlines were used then they would be getting all the attention rather than American and United. And it's likely that continental, as well as other businesses, also experienced high number of put options. Am I supposed to believe that out of all the businesses in the world that do business on wall street and other markets, the onlye companies experiencing spikes of put options were both airlines used on 9/11.

 

[MikeW]

Uh, this is the one argument i've heard that i've never heard debunked.

Could you please provide a link or some more information on the put option debunking?

This is just out of interest, i do not think the put options mean there was a conspiracy. Just pure interest.

I did something on it at http://911myths.com/index.php/Put_Options

This isn't something I'd say was definitively debunked, but it does point out a few things that truthers rarely bother to mention. For instance, the best example they quote of foreknowledge is the purchase of American Airlines put options on Monday 10th of September. Suspicious timing, we're told. Except I don't think I've ever seen a truther directly list the bad news I discovered American Airlines had reported the previous Friday:

12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR NOTES 'POOR' ECONOMIC CONDITIONS, 'FALLING' DEMAND
12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS DEFERRING JET PURCHASES BEYOND FIRM ORDERS
12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR'S AMERICAN RETIRING 5 MORE 727 AIRCRAFT EARLY
12:48pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR: AMERICAN TO RETIRE ENTIRE 727 FLEET BY END OF 2002
12:46pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SEES Q3 LOSS 'CONSIDERABLY LARGER' THAN Q2'S
12:47pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR ANTICIPATES 'SIGNIFICANT' LOSS IN Q4
12:49pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR SAYS CUTTING 2001-02 CAPEX BY NEARLY $1.2 BLN
12:50pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMERICAN AIR FEELS SQUEEZE OF FUEL PRICES, LABOR COSTS
1:07pm 09/07/01 AMR warns of wider losses - William Spain
2:44pm 09/07/01 Analyst: Airline Stocks Face At Least Another Bad Quarter
2:51pm 09/07/01 [AMR] AMR DOWN 3.4% AT $30.08 FOLLOWING Q3 WARNING
4:04pm 09/07/01 Boeing stock rating cut over commercial growth - August Cole
Marketwatch.com
http://911myths.com/index.php/Put_Options#American_Airlines

The reality is there was reason to believe the stock was in trouble. The economy was doing poorly anyway. A newsletter recommended on Sunday that people buy the puts, and that created a spike in sales on Monday. This doesn't prove there was nothing dodgy going on, but it does show there's a possible alternative explanation (which is probably why truthers keep quiet about it).

 

[Jackanory]

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

That is probably the most truthful and precise answer that you have given since being here. That would also include your previous visits.

Anyway as to your reference to 'debunking'. True - nobody here on JREF has had any real need to debunk anything. The events of 911 are a reality. It happened infront of a capacity crowd. No other event in the history of our time has been witnessed by as many people. Just because you have since been fooled to believe otherwise is your problem.

Edited by Tricky: 

Edited for rule 12.

911 hasnt been debunked fool. Its the stupid about 911 that has.

 

[TobiasTheViking]

Thanks, more than enough, i'll read it on the morrow.

 

[TobiasTheViking]

Read it anyways now, even though i should be sleeping. I'm such a naughty boy.

Well, now i finally have the answer to that riddle. Thanks comrades.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Read it anyways now, even though i should be sleeping. I'm such a naughty boy.

Well, now i finally have the answer to that riddle. Thanks comrades.

Comrades? You're "TheViking" now, not "TheCommunist"!



-------

Anyway, for any new people or lurkers who might be reading this (since Tobias has been around long enough to know this on his own; he predates me, in fact): Yes, the whole truther process has always been the standard 'Make something suspicious about a real world event that is indeed a little (not a lot, merely a little) out of the ordinary, yet ignore all alternate, mundane, non-conspiratorial explanations for it'. Mike W, as always, had done a standout job in providing the context for this "issue". If you're new to 9/11 trutherism, his site (http://911myths.com) is excellent reading for this sort of thing. Yes, the stock move is unusual... until you see the context of the earlier day's news, which Mike W. is comfortable pointing out, but truthers never do. Unusual move? All right. But explained easily by factors that have zero to do with any conspiracy.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever.

Not even the face of Satan in the smoke from the WTC fires?

So, you're saying you believe the evil NWO was somehow able to pull this off? Or perhaps you think Satan was involved?

 

[aggle-rithm]

True - nobody here on JREF has had any real need to debunk anything. The events of 911 are a reality.

Yes...is there really a need to "debunk" the belief that NORAD both ordered its fighters to stand down AND had them shoot down flight 93?

 

[Scott Sommers]

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Thanks for pointing this out Truther Vinnie. That's why 911 Truth remains the most divisive issue in the nation. It tears at the very fabric of our people. The sound of 911 Truth can mobilize thousands of professionals from the construction industry, firefighting and law. It has damaged families, friends, and colleagues. Led by a band of brave citizens, 911 Truth is changing the very face of this nation.

 

[Macgyver1968]

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

For some reason this comment made me think of this:

The Black Knight

It's just a scratch...I've had worse.

 

[vinniem]

Not even the face of Satan in the smoke from the WTC fires?

So, you're saying you believe the evil NWO was somehow able to pull this off? Or perhaps you think Satan was involved?

That all you got?

As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it.

Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?

 

[beachnut]

That all you got?

As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it.

Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?

just everything you presented, and all of 911 truth


Hoffman was debunked, unless you have something to support him; got some evidence? No you will post nothing but talk, and repeat that simple action. Where is the evidence for 911 truth?

Do you have some evidence for Hoffman's thermite ceiling tiles?

 

[332nd]

That all you got?

As far as I know, ir was only ever killtown who mentioned it.

Has anyone here ever debunked anything, seriously?

Yes, have you forgotten all of that evidence you've hand waved away because it shows you to be wrong?

 

[Hokulele]

And, of course, there are the claims made by various CTists from different factions that are directly contradictory, hence auto-debunking.

The towers fell directly in their footprint!
The towers were blown to pieces with bits flung in all directions!
Sheeple!
Shill!

 

[Baylor]

I don't know if the rest of you know but if you do and Mackey did indeed debunk Hoffman post the link so I can read it.

As we all know, Mackey wrote a 300 page critique on Griffin's chapter on the NIST report. http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mackey_drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf

Hoffman, however, wrote a critique of Mackey's work.
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/Mackey_drg_nist_review_2_1.pdf

I know mackey debunked Kevin Ryan twice. but i don't know if Mackey wrote something debunking Hoffman. So did Mackey write something countering Hoffman cuase I couldn't find anything.

 

[Klimax]

No. Responses were too normal for one.

 

[TruthersLie]

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Wow... you really sound like a former banned poster... go figure.

Please provide JUST ONE FACT. That is all I am asking for. JUST ONE SUPPORTABLE fact.

Why can't you do that?

 

[Edx]

Nobody on this forum has ever debunked anything. Not a single thing, ever. They either just pretend they have or try and muddy the waters a bit and call it a debunking.

Wow that's just lost you all credibility ever.

Do you really think 911 Truth never made any errors?