AE 911 Truth at Full Juggernaut Strength (1,000)

Edx said:
For a start at the time I wasnt aware of how much Alex Jones and Loose Change lie and just how bad they were. I really shouldn't have been defending them.

Secondly, you arent aware of the conversations I'm referring to or of the points I raised. I can see now that as I was defending the truthers based on my own ignorance of a lot of the points I was making, I just couldnt see it at the time. But either I was too slow to get it or they weren't explaining it to me clear enough it just went to argument hell eventually, which means you end up debating more about who said what and what they really meant when they said it, rather than about the points in question.

The only valid point I made was that certain debunkers can have a tendency to not have much time anymore to assume you are honest because they have come across so many liars in the truth movement (such as those just "JAQing"). As a consequence they can come across as very short and maybe rude sometimes, as a casual observer if you wont know why you could wonder why they were like that.

I had great respect for skeptics for a long time and this forum and the JREF in general since I had debated religion and Creation and general "woo" for ages. When I learnt about 911 eventually I realised my skeptics and JREF community didnt subscribe to it, but instead of discarding them as "close minded" or working for the gubmint (which I thought was just plain stupid) I was willing to find out WHY they were so critical acted that way, since at the back of my mind I knew there had to be a reason.

As I have come to see I eventually discarded all truther beliefs and debated them myself, I can now see where all that frustration comes from. Not all truthers are like that, but they are ones that are willing to change their minds and several people have PM'd me in other forums and said I helped them change their minds and helped them think differently.

Around here unfortunately you usually get the worst of the worst, the looniest of the looniest. Just look at Bill Smith, who thinks glowing molten steel was running down the streets and covering buildings or Heiwa who believes that you'd have to drop the top part of the WTC from a distance of 2 miles up in order to crush the bottom part.

But thats just the tip of the ice berg. Since I stated a youtube channel the kinds of things truthers have told me have been I-N-S-A-N-E. So yes, I have grown quite frustrated with them myself and while I know i am a lot more patient than some people here I would have given myself a good thrashing back then believe me even though I would have been more patient. Thing is, I would have listened, because I did. While I didnt like the way Mark Roberts argued at all, on the internet, I had to admit that he was right and now I really respect the work he did. If you look at my opening post, I deserved a MUCH worse reception than I got, yet people like TAM welcomed me.
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I bumped the conspiracy files thread because I am interested to see what you think of it now.
 
 
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vinniem said:
I bumped the conspiracy files thread because I am interested to see what you think of it now.
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... your post are like you were mentored by killtown and pdoh! Outstanding nostalgia for the failure of 911 truth.

It is like you are one of the banned truthers, not adding to the discussion, you are going through your old posts and bringing them back to the top so you can relive your glory days of spewing lies and delusions. Glory days of failure. Repeating lies; failing again.

8 years of failure, repeated for what reason?

Gage, fake names, zero evidence, just traveling on gullible people's money. Gage tell lies about 911 and the paranoid conspiracy theorist with no knowledge of 911 flock to sign up as fellow terrorist apologists. No facts just, fools who sign before they comprehend; a common failure for 911 truth followers; a trait 911 truth leaders/frauds are counting on. As usual the conspiracy on 911 truth is the money; there are bucks to made off of those gullible people...

After studying many of the members of Gage, all of them have the exact same evidence to help Gage's ideas; zero, so Gage's ideas remain lies and delusions which no truther can save.
 
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I was a "truther" but at the time i was a "truther" it wasn't a term yet coined. I saw a video version of Thierry Meyssan's claim about flight 77 not impacting the pentagon.

I believed it. I thought "something didn't look right". Searching on Thierry Meyssan, i came across Loose Change. WAtched it in its entirety. Then on a google search for Loose Change, I was greeted with Screw Loose Change and the 4 threads that spawned here at JREF that took the claims within Loose Change and tore them to shreds.

I was a truther, for a much shorter time than EdX, but I believe the claims for a while, until I did my own research and found contrary explanations that was offered up by those who are responsible for the "truth" movement.

I didn't post here on JREF until I read all four threads; each with pages that numbered into the 100's.

That is hours of reading that I did, over several days. I read screw loose change and read each linked article that debunked each claim found in the film. I watched the screw loose change videos and found that to be helpful in understand why things happened the way they did.

in less than 4 months, I went from truther, to being a debunker and I have JREF to thank for that.
 
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metamars said:
If Ae911truth were to continue to grow at it's current rate, and if the engineering community continue to grow at its current rate, would the membership of ae911truth ever equal that of the engineering community?
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'If' is being pretty generous. I expect their ranks to grow over time but not to rival the membership of the AIA or ASCE. Competent people recognize that in every professional field there are people who have an agenda or idiot syndrome. And it's not always limited to people who have bizarre fantasies - they just congregate in groups when a common form of the three converges.

I'm not worried about the group becoming a significant factor in the long run of the industry, but I always have a little fear for the safety of their clientele whom occupy the structures these whacks designed. Given the kind of crap they speak makes it impossible to tell if their professional practices are the antithesis of their conspiracy whackness.
 
metamars said:
it is I who have not factored in the results of a couple of polls of non-engineers.
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Submit your evidence that none of the 35 million people who turned thier backs on you in 2006-2007 were engineers.


If Ae911truth were to continue to grow at it's current rate, and if the engineering community continure to grow at its current rate, would the membership of ae911truth ever equal that of the engineering community?
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Lol, no. Of course not.
 
Arus808 said:
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I didn't post here on JREF until I read all four threads; each with pages that numbered into the 100's.

That is hours of reading that I did, over several days. I read screw loose change and read each linked article that debunked each claim found in the film. I watched the screw loose change videos and found that to be helpful in understand why things happened the way they did.

in less than 4 months, I went from truther, to being a debunker and I have JREF to thank for that.
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The fact you decided to read and analyze is what you can thank yourself for. I think there is great value of being fooled or falling for something, and working your way back to the knowledge you gained on your own by thinking for yourself. I did not say it right; good job for all who believed in lies and now discovered how to think and make rational conclusions based on evidence, not hearsay, lies and delusions.

911 truth has been evidence free for 8 years; will there be a 20 year reunion of zero truth?
 
vinniem said:
Which lies has Gage told?
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Pretty much, if it can be attributed to Gage, its a lie.

Wasn't it Gage who pointed to a photo of firefighters surrounding an opening in the rubble, and claimed that the light was from the "molten rivers" that were down below??

Only to find out if you watch the video that the picture was taken from, that the firefighters not 10 seconds later, picked up this "molten river light" and moved it?

BTW, it was nothing more than a halogen lamp.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Submit your evidence that none of the 35 million people who turned thier backs on you in 2006-2007 were engineers.
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An idiotic comment. It had occurred to me that you would take what I'd written absolutely literally, and make hay out of it. Usually, when I anticipate the picking of such nits, I word my posts to preclude the mental giants of JREF the opportunity to waste my time on them, which in itself can be time consuming, plus it makes my posts wordy.

If you can't think through the implications of the probability of having an engineer within a random sample of Americans, when in this very thread their number is given as 1,571,900, and the population of the US is well known to be about 300 million, perhaps one of your debunker fellow travelers can explain it to you.


Lol, no. Of course not.
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I can see you're not very good at math. Perhaps W.D.Clinger will be good enough to explain to you why you're wrong. Or, you can go ask any banker or accountant "If I deposit $1,000 at 16% interest in one account, and $1,000,000 at 1% interest in another, will the first account ever exceed the second?" If you really want to have fun, you can solve for y (=years) where

((1,000)^1.16)^y = ((1,000,000)^1.01)^y


It might be a good idea to let your spouse handle the family finances... ;)
 
metamars said:
Well, it couldn't exceed the number of engineers + architects - that would be a contradiction. Plus, I figure Mackey would never join ae911truth, so even equaling the total number of architects + engineers would never happen.
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I'd be willing to bet that if AE911truth ever produced a convincing case for an inside job which was based on solid Engineering and real scientific research, Mackey might indeed sign up. But as of now, that doesn't appear likely.
 
Maybe if you drop a cardboard box on top of another cardboard box, and then put it on YouTube, I'd consider it. ;)
 
metamars said:
An idiotic comment. Blah blah blah blah blah blah
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In other words, you have no proof that the 35 million doesn't contain any engineers as your sloppily worded post originally implied.

Got it, thanks.

I can see you're not very good at math.
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Better than you, twoof.

AE911T's growth over 5 years at 20% per year compounded annually (I'm being really generous here):

1000 x .20 = 200
1200 x .20 = 240
1440 x .20 = 288
1728 x .20 = 345.6
2073.6 x .20 = 414.72

ASCE's growth over 5 years at half of what I gave AE911T, also compounded annually:

147,000 x .1 = 14,700
161,700 x .1 = 16,170
177,870 x .1 = 17,787
195,657 x .1 = 19,565.7
215,222.7 x .1 = 21,522.27

And now here's AE911Ts growth subtracted from ASCE's:

14,700 - 200 = 14,500
16,170 - 240 = 15,930
17,787 - 288 = 17,507
19,565.7 - 345.6 = 19,220.1
21,522.27 - 414.72 = 21,107.55

Each year, ASCE's growth and AE911Ts gets bigger and bigger.

So yeah... AE911T will never grow as big as ASCE. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Especially since you don't seem to be able to figure these things out yourself.
 
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Brainache said:
I'd be willing to bet that if AE911truth ever produced a convincing case for an inside job which was based on solid Engineering and real scientific research, Mackey might indeed sign up. But as of now, that doesn't appear likely.
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The problem with AE911T is that it is a scientific/technical organization whose sole raison d'etre is a "theory" that has already been scientifically disproven.

Thus Gage is left with nothing but to appeal to his would be recruits hatreds and biases in such a way as to override what the numbers are telling them.

It's like the Flat Earth Society trying to recruit astronomers and astrophysicists.
 
Edx said:
Why cant you imagine that I stopped being truther because I couldn't defend such poor arguments and blatant dishonesty anymore?
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Because, in vinniem's belief system, you cannot possibly exist, any more than I can. It's a crucial point to understand. Truthers believe that any sufficiently intelligent person, having been exposed to their arguments, must be convinced by them and remain convinced by them. Therefore, in their belief system, the only possible opposition to them is from those who are either uninformed, apathetic, unintelligent, or wilfully dishonest. They cannot, indeed dare not, admit of the possibility that an intelligent, informed and interested observer could find their arguments unconvincing, because this might open them up to the possibility of being wrong; and, as you found out, once a truther is prepared to admit this possibility, it very quickly becomes a reality.

Quite why they cling to their belief system, I'm not sure. Certainly there's a need to feel special, to believe oneself the posessor of secret knowledge and thus to stand apart from the crowd; but there's probably, also, a fear of ridicule, of having been proven wrong. To which I'd say, I have a lot more respect for someone who's examined their beliefs, found the flaws in them, and corrected them to a more reasonable set, than for someone who believes the right things for the wrong reasons; which is why you and those like you who've been on both sides of the argument, are a valuable and respected part of this forum, and always will be.

Dave
 
metamars said:
Well, it couldn't exceed the number of engineers + architects - that would be a contradiction. Plus, I figure Mackey would never join ae911truth, so even equaling the total number of architects + engineers would never happen.
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Actually in the case of AE truth the number could exceed all known (living) engineers. There is no membership requirement that must be met to keeps you on the list. As long as you don't ask to be removed you remain on the list.
 
R.Mackey said:
Maybe if you drop a cardboard box on top of another cardboard box, and then put it on YouTube, I'd consider it. ;)
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That is the single most funniest moment in truther youtube videos.

The only thing I regret is that they didn't have a reaction shot from Gravy. lol
 
Today, I have one member in my group. Next year, I convince some one else to join me. The following year, I convince two more.

Each year, my group has grown by 100%.

Now I stop taking data. And instead make wild, extravagant assumptions about how sustainable will be this growth rate.

How long until everyone in the world is a member of my group?

What are the odds that this is a group of people competent in math or statistics?
 
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