Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

BigAl said:
Thanks. Finally. I've been asking for the source for ages.

I'd love to see an expanded version of what this fireman said up on YouTube.
Click to expand...

Big Al.

I do not think the fireman quote is in Metal of Honor. The movie was listed to respond to V who like all twoofs can't do any real research on their own.

I don't know where the fireman quote is from. I'd like to see the full context of the video.
 
BigAl said:
"Similar"? Yes, they are similar in that they are all second hand or unsourced. There is no eyewitness.

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss the second-hand stories as hyperbole or bad reporting.
Click to expand...

All of those people are making personal eyewitness reports of molten steel. What on Earth are you talking about ?
 
bill smith said:
All of those people are making personal eyewitness reports of molten steel. What on Earth are you talking about ?
Click to expand...

None of them say anything like "I saw".

Bill, we've gone through this before with you.
 
vinniem said:
What do you think he saw then? He was very specific that it was molten steel. He mentions a foundry as if speaking from experiance, he may well have worked in one.
Click to expand...

Since you have me on ignore, you will just miss the words of wisdom.

How many different metals which melt at under 1,000C were used in the construction of, and spread throughout the towers?

(take a guess....)

about a dozen. All of them would have been present in the towers and in the piles. The temperuatres would EASILY have turned those dozen metals into liquid/molten form.

Again and again I ask you. Can you or anyone who is untrained with very little experience tell the difference between molten lead, molten tin, molten zinc, molten aluminum, molten colbalt (and all the rest?) Could they tell the difference between MOLTEN GLASS/MOLTEN plastics?

just by looking? Really?

Now comes the better question. Can you ELIMINATE any of those dozen metals which would become molten at 1000C from the datamined quotes? Can you ELIMINATE the possibility of molten glass or plastics?

what? <crickets chirping>

No you can't. If you cannot eliminate very easy to find, reasonable examples, then you CANNOT claim it was molten steel.

It is called experimental design, look it up.
 
TruthersLie said:
Since you have me on ignore, you will just miss the words of wisdom.

How many different metals which melt at under 1,000C were used in the construction of, and spread throughout the towers?

(take a guess....)

about a dozen. All of them would have been present in the towers and in the piles. The temperuatres would EASILY have turned those dozen metals into liquid/molten form.

Again and again I ask you. Can you or anyone who is untrained with very little experience tell the difference between molten lead, molten tin, molten zinc, molten aluminum, molten colbalt (and all the rest?) Could they tell the difference between MOLTEN GLASS/MOLTEN plastics?

just by looking? Really?

Now comes the better question. Can you ELIMINATE any of those dozen metals which would become molten at 1000C from the datamined quotes? Can you ELIMINATE the possibility of molten glass or plastics?

what? <crickets chirping>

No you can't. If you cannot eliminate very easy to find, reasonable examples, then you CANNOT claim it was molten steel.

It is called experimental design, look it up.
Click to expand...


I'm not on ignore. :)
 
vinniem said:
The video I posted is a first hand account. You are clearly accusing a 911 firefighter of lying. Stop disrespecting the heroes of 911.
Click to expand...

The video is a first hand account of a man witnessing molten metal. He has no way of knowing it was steel. And we know it could not have been steel because the recovery teams had the steel debris, which was documented in NCSTAR 1-3C. Nowhere in that report do you see any structural steel elements of the towers that suffered any melting at all, let alone enough to account for that firefighters account. Nowhere. Go read it.

Furthermore, what you fail to acknowledge is
  1. There were a variety of other metals in the towers - aluminum facade, God knows how much plumbing and wiring, etc. - that can easily account for this sighting. And
  2. The firefighter did not test the material to make certain it's steel. So while in normal circumstances we can trust the accuracy of an experienced firefighter's observation, the fact remains that he is stating something that is in direct contradiction to accumulated evidence. In the absence of tests on what the man witnessed, you cannot definitively rule that what he saw was steel.
Last, if there was molten steel, where are the hardened remains? None were recovered (no, the "asteroid" does not count; that was never, ever molten steel).
 
bill smith said:
I've never quite worked out what that particular firefighter means As far as I know 'Channel Rails' are the grooves in a H-beam for instance. But the guy gestures horizontally when he says 'molten steel flowing down the channel rails' as if the H-beam was lying flat on the ground.
Click to expand...

PS actually when I look at the video again the guy gestures at 45 degrees. So that would have been molten steel running down the channel rail of a beam that was on a pile. Interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287#
 
And, as usual, it boils down to exactly how does molten steel = inside job anyway?
 
bill smith said:
PS actually when I look at the video again the guy gestures at 45 degrees. So that would have been molten steel running down the channel rail of a beam that was on a pile. Interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287#
Click to expand...

Allright twoof...Let me spell it out...Anyone who saw molten steel at the WTC or even speaks of it today is an anti-semite!! Haven't they been through enough. Did you read about the molten steel on David Duke's website or Stormfront....Now which is it Duke or Stormfront? I need PROOF of molten steel right now...
 
Last edited:
jmh423 said:
Alright twoof...Let me spell it out...Anyone who saw molten steel at the WTC or even speaks of it today is an anti-semite!!
Click to expand...

very interesting strawman argument.

your posts have become a hilarious parody of 9-11 Truth.

God job sir.
 
DGM said:
Can you explain how it could be steel? (I mean actually doing it ,not just saying you can)
Click to expand...

I wonder what would happen if somebody published ads in all the main New York papers calling for all the 9/11 firemen to come forward for discussions with some Scientists ? Would the complicit media print the ads at all ? Would the firemen dare respond ? It could tell a lot.
 
Last edited:
bill smith said:
I wonder what would happen if somebody published ads in all the main New York papers calling for all the 9/11 firemen to cme forward for discussions with some Scientists ? Would the complicit media print the ads at all ? Would the firemen dare respond ? It could tell a lot.
Click to expand...
You didn't even try to answer the question. Should I take this as a "no" then?
 
parky76 said:
very interesting strawman argument.

your posts have become a hilarious parody of 9-11 Truth.

God job sir.
Click to expand...

Thank you parky...I have been observing your excellent debunking style since I came into JREF. I appreciate how you have taken me under your wing and showed me the ropes of true skepticism JREF style. I have been boning up on the deluxe debunkers handbook that has been downloaded on the jref homepage and hope to be a high profile debunker someday so I can make a real difference in the world like you.
 
jmh423 said:
Thank you parky...I hope to be a high profile debunker someday so I can make a real difference in the world like you.
Click to expand...

Um, I'm just here to shoot the **** and for entertainment.

Just like you.

Change the world? naaaaa..
 
parky76 said:
very interesting strawman argument.

your posts have become a hilarious parody of 9-11 Truth.

God job sir.
Click to expand...

A Jewish mama was told by a psychiatrist that her son had an Oedipus complex , ' Oedipus-Smoedipus ' she said..' as long as he loves his mother '.
 
Last edited:
bill smith said:
I wonder what would happen if somebody published ads in all the main New York papers calling for all the 9/11 firemen to cme forward for discussions with some Scientists ? Would the complicit media print the ads at all ? Would the firemen dare respond ? It could tell a lot.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see what more firemen have to say. As a New Yorker and witness, I'd pay good money to see it.

For that matter, I'd love to hear what your "scientists" have to say without Richard Gage speaking for them.
 
Last edited:
ElMondoHummus said:
This is where you fail, Deep. You did exactly what I said above and in previous posts: You concentrated on only a single aspect of Astaneh-Asl's observation, you failed to include the followups that Worchester did, and you delved into unrelated eyewitness accounts about molten metal to make the charge that molten steel was present.
Click to expand...


Please see the link I posted earlier - the eye-witness reports I'm referring to are the ones that specifically mention molten steel. Dr. A-Asl observed "melting of girders" .. and, I assume we can all agree that girders are made of steel?

So - no, they are not "unrelated".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom