Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

vinniem said:
Nothing has been edited. You are lying. He says "you would go down there and you would see". He is describing his own experience. Why not contact him to clarify?
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Not edited ????? Someone that doesn't want us to know something chopped off everything that preceded what we find in that clip. They also didn't identify the source video.

One more fact that makes your version of this video suspect; "Would" is a conditional verb and it's not the word a fireman would use for something he witnessed first-hand. Is English your first language?
Examples:

* If he were an actor, he would be in adventure movies. conditional
* I knew that she would be very successful in her career. past of "will"
* When they first met, they would always have picnics on the beach.

http://www.englishpage.com/modals/would.html
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vinniem said:
Now, that is desperation. He is describing what he saw.

There is another film, whose name escapes me, that is all about the steel workers at ground zero. They describe seeing similar things.

Could someone remember the name?
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Metal of Honor: The Ironworkers of 9/11 2006.

And the funny part is that when you don't datamine it, it actually says that the buildings collapsed due to being struck by jets and burning.

But go figure... datamined quotes are great.
 
Though it is funny... it appears that HI... oh sorry.. p'doh... oh sorry.. v has me on ignore.

I guess he won't get the name of the movie he wants. Oh well.
 
TruthersLie said:
Though it is funny... it appears that HI... oh sorry.. p'doh... oh sorry.. v has me on ignore.

I guess he won't get the name of the movie he wants. Oh well.
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Have no fear

Metal of Honor: The Ironworkers of 9/11 2006

And the funny part is that when you don't datamine it, it actually says that the buildings collapsed due to being struck by jets and burning.

But go figure... datamined quotes are great.
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vinniem said:
Steel?
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Yes, I think that's most likely.

The interesting thing is, molten steel glows bright yellow, almost white, the color of the largest part of a candle flame. Very intensely.

Of course, in order for the molten steel to keep running, the channel rail would also have to be at close to the same temperature. So it too would have been intensely glowing yellow hot. (Without, of course, getting hot enough to melt itself. Very precise temperature control going on there, somehow.)

Funny, though, that the firefighter didn't say something like "bright glowing yellow-hot molten steel running down yellow-hot channel rails." I guess he sees 1300°C flowing metal all the time, so he wouldn't bother mentioning that, right? Same reason not a single person took a single photograph of all that yellow-hot molten steel flowing around. And yet, he mentioned the molten steel it as if it were an unusual thing to see. Go figure.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
TruthersLie said:
Metal of Honor: The Ironworkers of 9/11 2006.

And the funny part is that when you don't datamine it, it actually says that the buildings collapsed due to being struck by jets and burning.

But go figure... datamined quotes are great.
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Thanks. Finally. I've been asking for the source for ages.

I'd love to see an expanded version of what this fireman said up on YouTube.
 
Myriad said:
Yes, I think that's most likely.

The interesting thing is, molten steel glows bright yellow, almost white, the color of the largest part of a candle flame. Very intensely.

Of course, in order for the molten steel to keep running, the channel rail would also have to be at close to the same temperature. So it too would have been intensely glowing yellow hot. (Without, of course, getting hot enough to melt itself. Very precise temperature control going on there, somehow.)

Funny, though, that the firefighter didn't say something like "bright glowing yellow-hot molten steel running down yellow-hot channel rails." I guess he sees 1300°C flowing metal all the time, so he wouldn't bother mentioning that, right? Same reason not a single person took a single photograph of all that yellow-hot molten steel flowing around. And yet, he mentioned the molten steel it as if it were an unusual thing to see. Go figure.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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What do you think he saw then? He was very specific that it was molten steel. He mentions a foundry as if speaking from experiance, he may well have worked in one.
 
BigAl said:
Thanks. Finally. I've been asking for the source for ages.

I'd love to see an expanded version of what this fireman said up on YouTube.
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No, the video I posted is not from Metal of Honour. Metal of Honour is steel workers only.
 
Please enlighten us as to your hypothesis as to what "molten steel" would mean in the context of the WTC on 9/11/01. Thanks.
 
vinniem said:
What do you think he saw then? He was very specific that it was molten steel. He mentions a foundry as if speaking from experiance, he may well have worked in one.
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What words in that video make you believe he is reporting something first-hand?

His use of "would" indicates he is reporting something someone else said they saw.

There is nothing in this video that indicates the fireman is making a first-hand report.
 
So you are 'just asking questions' then? Very good use of your time. Why don't you ask this guy (Dr. A) what he meant? Why don't you ask a science teacher or metallurgist about these concepts?
 
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vinniem said:
I don't have one. If molten steel did exist then it is puzzling, no?
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It certainly would be a puzzle given that there are no first-hand eyewitness reports of molten steel on the pile, there is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile and that there is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Any of the thousands of steelworkers working at WTC would be amazed. They would talk about it, call their friends over and tell the press given the opportunity. None of that hapened.

An estimated 7,000 people, mostly skilled steelworkers and firemen worked on the pile. All you have is a handful of second-hand quotes.
 
vinniem said:
Steel?
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I've never quite worked out what that particular firefighter means As far as I know 'Channel Rails' are the grooves in a H-beam for instance. But the guy gestures horizontally when he says 'molten steel flowing down the channel rails' as if the H-beam was lying flat on the ground.
 
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vinniem said:
What do you think he saw then? He was very specific that it was molten steel. He mentions a foundry as if speaking from experiance, he may well have worked in one.
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I think he most likely saw molten metal flowing down steel channel rails.

That he was able to visually distinguish the flowing material from the channel rail and that he does not mention intense light or unbearably intense radiant heat strongly suggests that neither material was hotter than red-hot, about 700°C. That rules out the flowing material being molten steel.

It is, however, perfectly consistent with the channel rail being steel and the flowing metal being lead, aluminum, tin, zinc, or any of countless alloys known to be present in the towers.

Also, I dispute that the firefighter's comparison to a foundry has any specific characteristics to suggest that he's speaking from experience. Any more than a person who calls a committee meeting "a real circus" is likely to be speaking from experience of having worked in a circus. Of course it's possible that he did, but most firefighters' experience is in firefighting, not working in foundries.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
BigAl said:
How do you know it was first-hand. Quote the words for us.

It lacked the essential part, "I saw" or "we saw". etc.

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, and no"I saw", we can easily dismiss this video.
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Did Mark Loiseaux, president of controlled demolition inc not report seeing molten steel at the WTC ? Did Les Robertson who built the WTC not report molten steel still flowing weeks after 9/11 ? Did not dozens of others make similar reports ?
 
bill smith said:
Did Mark Loiseaux, president of controlled demolition inc not report seeing molten steel at the WTC ? Did Les Robertson who built the WTC not report molten steel still flowing weeks after 9/11 ? Did not dozens of others make similar reports ?
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"Similar"? Yes, they are similar in that they are all second hand or unsourced. There is no eyewitness.

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss the second-hand stories as hyperbole or bad reporting.
 
vinniem said:
That's it, Metal of Honour!! I couldn't think of it for the life of me and even google searches didn't bring it up. I will go watch it again. Thanks for that.:)
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Now what is really intersting is that most run of the mill twoofs come here and get batted around a while before putting people on ignore.

Hmmm... go figure. Of course a truther with piss poor investagoogling skillz... go figure. It only took me about 45 seconds to find... ok make it a minute because I was waiting for imdb to call it up.

and YOU ARE WELCOME.
 
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