Merged Has this structural engineer been debunked? / Astaneh-Asl "melting of girders"

[vinniem]

With the single exception of Dr. A, all the people you refer to make statements that are second-hand reports. Nobody saw molten steel first hand.
There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss the second-hand stories as hyperbole. We can also explain Dr. A's statement as a moment of exaggeration.

The bolded claim is untrue. Here is a video of a firefighter describing what he saw at ground zero

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287#

Molten steel...molten steel, running down the channel rails like you're in a foundry.

 

[BigAl]

The bolded claim is untrue. Here is a video of a firefighter describing what he saw at ground zero

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3060923273573302287#

Listen to the words carefully. Nowhere does anyone say anything like "I saw". The video is silent on this point.

The part someone edited out could just as well have been "they said they saw".

Someone edited that film. Why? Despite efforts, nobody has been able to identify where the clip came from. I'd love to know what that fireman really said.

 

[carlitos]

It's 2010, Vinnie. Thermate matches, not "molten steel."

 

[vinniem]

Listen to the words carefully. Nowhere does anyone say anything like "I saw". The video is silent on this point.

The part someone edited out could just as well have been "they said they saw".

Someone edited that film. Why? Despite efforts, nobody has been able to identify where the clip came from. I'd love to know what that fireman really said.

Now, that is desperation. He is describing what he saw.

There is another film, whose name escapes me, that is all about the steel workers at ground zero. They describe seeing similar things.

Could someone remember the name?

 

[DGM]

Now, that is desperation. He is describing what he saw.

There is another film, whose name escapes me, that is all about the steel workers at ground zero. They describe seeing similar things.

Could someone remember the name?

So, Do you have a theory what would cause these "rivers of molten steel"?

 

[carlitos]

What did Dr. A say when you asked him about this? What did the fire department guys say when you asked them about it? What did the expert in metallurgy say when you asked her about it?

 

[BigAl]

Now, that is desperation. He is describing what he saw.

If could be anything if we are allowed to make ◊◊◊◊ up. We can't, at least not here.

If true, why did the person that edited the film cut it so tightly and why is the source of the video not made public?

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss this video.

There is another film, whose name escapes me, that is all about the steel workers at ground zero. They describe seeing similar things.

Could someone remember the name?

Everyone, please help vinniem identify the video he wants us to see.

Please. Bring it on. I promise you it won't be a first-hand report.

I suspect you are referring to the video of the guy in the orange saftey vest with a crane in the background. The crane bucket is lifting something of orange color that Twoofers claim is molten.

 

[Jackanory]

Now, that is desperation. He is describing what he saw.

There is another film, whose name escapes me, that is all about the steel workers at ground zero. They describe seeing similar things.

Could someone remember the name?

Please dig deeper into your wild imagination and find something new for us to discuss. Perhaps a silent sonic boom from the depths of Manhatan or maybe a blast ray from a jews maglite. Your scraping the barrel and the apples have gone.

 

[TruthersLie]

It is a strange tactic this. They also claim that Bill Mannings' complaints about the destruction of steel don't matter because he personally doesn't believe in a conspiracy theory.

I think the term is "desperation".

Edited by Tricky: 

Do not make sockpupped allegations in the forums. If you think a member is a sock puppet, report them along with your evidence.

But again... where are these pools of molten steel? How does thermite keep steel (if it was steel... which it wasn't) molten for up to 100 days when thermite is a fast reaction, and the steel is cool to the touch after hours).

 

[vinniem]

If could be anything if we are allowed to make ◊◊◊◊ up. We can't, at least not here.

If true, why did the person that edited the film cut it so tightly and why is the source of the video not made public?

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, we can dismiss this video.



Everyone, please help vinniem identify the video he wants us to see.

Please. Bring it on. I promise you it won't be a first-hand report.

I suspect you are referring to the video of the guy in the orange saftey vest with a crane in the background. The crane bucket is lifting something of orange color that Twoofers claim is molten.

The video I posted is a first hand account. You are clearly accusing a 911 firefighter of lying. Stop disrespecting the heroes of 911.

 

[TruthersLie]

I don't understand why you believe it's an "idiotic idea" - there were numerous eye-witness accounts of molten steel:

http://history-bytes.blogspot.com/2006/09/more-molten-metal-magic.html

..and Dr. A-Asl saw the "melting of girders".

Do you believe this is all explainable (e.g., eutectic mix), or are you suggesting that the eye-witnesses were all mistaken? (or something else entirely?)

As I have asked you this before..

Can ANY of these individuals discern between molten steel, molten cobalt, molten aluminum, molten led or any of the other of the 10 common metals used in throughout the twin towers which would melt at under 1,000C?

How many of these datamined quotes are by people who can tell the difference by sight alone? Are any of them?

 

[BigAl]

The video I posted is a first hand account. You are clearly accusing a 911 firefighter of lying. Stop disrespecting the heroes of 911.

How do you know it was first-hand. Quote the words for us.

It lacked the essential part, "I saw" or "we saw". etc.

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, and no"I saw", we can easily dismiss this video.

 

[vinniem]

It lacked the essential part, "I saw" or "we saw". etc.

There is no physical evidence for molten steel on the pile.

There is no science that would show how the temperatures needed to maintain molten steel were created and maintained for weeks.

Given that there is no evidence and no science, and no"I saw", we can easily dismiss this video.

He clearly said "you would see". He was clearly descibing what he saw. Your attempts to pretend otherwise are tantamount to urinating on the graves of his brothers. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[BigAl]

He clearly said "you would see". He was clearly descibing what he saw. Your attempts to pretend otherwise are tantamount to urinating on the graves of his brothers. You should be ashamed of yourself.

or "They said you would see"

How do you know this is a first-hand report?

Why were the words that support Twoofer claims edited out if they existed in the first place?

 

[vinniem]

or "They said you would see"

Why were the words that support Twoofer claims edited out if they existed in the first place?

Nothing has been edited. You are lying. He says "you would go down there and you would see". He is describing his own experience. Why not contact him to clarify?

The fact you must lie to protect your fantasies is your problem, not mine.

 

[Myriad]

Molten steel...molten steel, running down the channel rails like you're in a foundry.

What were the channel rails made of, I wonder?

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[TruthersLie]

I suspect you are referring to the video of the guy in the orange saftey vest with a crane in the background. The crane bucket is lifting something of orange color that Twoofers claim is molten.

Now Big Al. In that picture it does appear that molten metal is falling off of the beam... of course it could be any of a dozen metals which were in the towers which would melt at 1000C and be molten in the pile.

 

[vinniem]

What were the channel rails made of, I wonder?

Respectfully,
Myriad

Steel?

 

[Jackanory]

He clearly said "you would see". He was clearly descibing what he saw. Your attempts to pretend otherwise are tantamount to urinating on the graves of his brothers. You should be ashamed of yourself.

If you believe in molten substances being picked up by those bespoke 911 excavator buckets, then what material was the bucket made of?

What have you determined the molten stuff to be?

Could it have been lead from batteries?

Have you researched what power units where installed on specific floors? Very specific floors!

Are you aware of the contents of those power unit?

I will answer for you - NO! Its far easier for you to quote mine other idiots and not research at all.

 

[carlitos]

Nothing has been edited. You are lying. He says "you would go down there and you would see". He is describing his own experience. Why not contact him to clarify?
The fact you must lie to protect your fantasies is your problem, not mine.

ETA, I have no idea what the firefighters saw, or even what they think they saw, and I don't want to be pedantic, but still... I don't often find myself saying "you" when I mean "I." I know that some people do this, but it's odd. Much like athletes referring to themselves in the 3rd person.