Loving kindness

[LibraryLady]

I have been following the Earthquake hits Haiti thread and was very struck by a particular comment

I don't really understand why some people seem to believe that we have an obligation to help these people just because we richer than them. Why do people believe that?

At first I took it as a kind of mean spirited comment, then I took it as a rhetorical question, then I started thinking, what if this person honestly doesn’t know why? Then I thought, “Do I know why?” Which is why I like to read these forums, they make me question myself.

And I started pondering, why do a majority, and I do think it’s a majority, of people immediately respond to disaster and tragedy by being kind to those suffering. We saw this after 9/11, after the tsunami in 2004, and now, after this horrific earthquake. People rush to give blood, give money, and in the most striking cases, to go themselves and physically help the sufferers. Is it instinct? Is it evolutionary? Is it a desire to show off? All three?

Since I have not researched empathy, or as I like to call it, loving kindness, I can only speak for myself. I cannot pretend that I am the kind of person who can drop what she is doing and rush off to a disaster area to help. I am not that skilled, not that generous, and not that flexible. I have nothing but admiration for the people who are those things. I do give money, and I campaign for people to give money and blood and hope that that is sufficient for me as an individual. But why do I do that? Why do I worry about it?

One reason is that I immediately imagine myself under that rubble. I really do. I imagine myself cut off from the world, alone, hurt, terrified, and not knowing if I will die soon. I imagine myself being told I have lost a child, mother, sibling, friend, or all at the same time. I imagine being thirsty and hungry and not knowing how to get water or food. I imagine not knowing if the building in which I have found refuge will fall down around me.

So is empathy just a matter of imagination? I am curious to what others here feel is their foundation for empathy or lack thereof. Does the person have to be of your nationality, race, or gender to make you feel empathy? Do you have other criteria? Do you feel that all others regardless of circumstance should fend for themselves or are you compelled to help?

What are your thoughts?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

You might find some of the stuff written about mirror neurons interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron

http://www.robotcub.net/misc/review2/06_Rizzolatti_Craighero.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/10/s...&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

 

[Dancing David]

I think game theory provides an explanation, give when you can and you might get when you need.

 

[Francesca R]

That's not what i am talking about. I am talking about the people who are saying that we have an obligation to let in refugees and send billions of SKR in foreign aid to third world countries just because our situation isn't as poor as theirs.

I just don't understand that kind of mentality.

I could recommend some informative texts in mathematics (game theory), economic history or philosophy (moral enquiry) to help you there.

You really have no idea why anyone would feel an "obligation" (not the legal type--that wasn't what you were talking about) about this?

Anyway, the knowledge is yours for the learning

I've written about the first two books I cited here:

http://www.librarything.com/work/47311/reviews/34407238
http://www.librarything.com/work/13793/reviews/39911267

I am not sure this gets to empathy in a terribly veracious way, but these books are good for those who yearn for logical explanations of different levels of co-operation (not just "trade").

 

[Seismosaurus]

I'd say that we don't have an obligation to help at all. Rather, we choose to.

 

[Thunder]

Why is it that I assume that this cold-hearted selfish individual, is a right-wing Christian?

Correct me if I am wrong.

I believe a good person wants to help his fellow man, as much as is realistically possible. Only a bad person would be willing to see hie fellow man suffering when he knew FULL well that he could help...even if in a small way.

 

[Pardalis]

So is empathy just a matter of imagination?

No, it's a matter of education. It starts at childhood, with family, and parents inculcating to their children the meaning of caring for others, and not be selfish. It's also about them being cared for, and to develop their self-esteem.

Those who have no empathy are frustrated. I don't want to analyze him, but my impression of people like Arcade 22 who go out of his way to show others how he doesn't care, (why else post about something you don't care for?), to me that looks like a cry for help, he wants us to know what a bad person he is, to show how he never was cared for, and wants to project that frustration onto others.

Just like racism is a lack of self-esteem, these people hate themselves first, and because they can't love themselves they project that hatred outwards, and make up an exaggerated love of themselves or their "kind".

 

[fuelair]

Why is it that I assume that this cold-hearted selfish individual, is a right-wing Christian?

Correct me if I am wrong.

I believe a good person wants to help his fellow man, as much as is realistically possible. Only a bad person would be willing to see hie fellow man suffering when he knew FULL well that he could help...even if in a small way.

Or a person who has what most of us would see as a character flaw - but could really be something in brain chemistry/neural pathways that precludes understanding naturally the "Do unto others" concept (that is not me being religious, that is me being me - and, no I do not extend it to those I believe to be truly evil, but otherwise, I go with it.)

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

We have a natural instinct to help one another. It's evolutionary and designed to help the survival of the species, yes. (We also have a natural instinct to hurt one another and enjoy someone else's pain- but not in a situation like this.)

As for whether it is our "obligation", no, it's not. Not really. You have money, it's not your fault someone else doesn't and you have no real obligation to share. It's something we feel we need to do anyway, though. And I guess there's an argument to be made that America is only wealthy in the first place because we exploit the Third World.

 

[Arcade22]

What are your thoughts?

Well, i am a Racist and a Nationalist. That said, i don't hate anyone because their race or ethnicity.

I put greater value on the Swedish people (and note that I don't mean people who have Swedish citizenship but Swedes) than non Swedes.

Does this mean that i don't feel empathy for the Haitians and their situation? No, but i feel that the well being of the Swedish people is of greater importance,
and i am not willing to reduce my peoples well being just because the Haitians had a disaster.

I am not against sharing and my views on social welfare and healthcare can rightfully be described as being Socialist, but this is amongst the Swedish people.

 

[Arcade22]

No, it's a matter of education. It starts at childhood, with family, and parents inculcating to their children the meaning of caring for others, and not be selfish. It's also about them being cared for, and to develop their self-esteem.

Those who have no empathy are frustrated. I don't want to analyze him, but my impression of people like Arcade 22 who go out of his way to show others how he doesn't care, (why else post about something you don't care for?), to me that looks like a cry for help, he wants us to know what a bad person he is, to show how he never was cared for, and wants to project that frustration onto others.

Just like racism is a lack of self-esteem, these people hate themselves first, and because they can't love themselves they project that hatred outwards, and make up an exaggerated love of themselves or their "kind".

You are really clueless, aren't you?

And when you write something like this

I don't want to analyze him

and then go on to 'analyze' me just goes to show what a worthless shred of human debris you really are, but do keep it up, it is really amusing.

 

[Pardalis]

I pity you.

 

[Arcade22]

I pity you.

 

[Thunder]

Well, i am a Racist and a Nationalist. That said, i don't hate anyone because their race or ethnicity.

I am not against sharing and my views on social welfare and healthcare can rightfully be described as being Socialist, but this is amongst the Swedish people.

ah, so you are a Nationalist Socialist.

do you honestly believe that the Swedish people would be hurt if every one of them donating $20 to the International Red Cross' Haiti relief effort?

i pray, I hope, that when Sweden faces a natural disaster, the world does not take the same selfish ethno-centric view that you do.

 

[Pardalis]

ah, so you are a National Socialist.

do you honestly believe that the Swedish people would be hurt if every one of them donating $20 to the International Red Cross' Haiti relief effort?

He's also cheap. A Nazi cheapskate, imagine that...

 

[LibraryLady]

Ahem, the topic is empathy and its origins, not measuring your respective, well, you know.

My reading list is getting longer again. Sigh. But I am interested in those who are saying that aid is not an obligation, but that they feel compelled to aid others.

 

[Pardalis]

Ahem, the topic is empathy and its origins, not measuring your respective, well, you know.

My reading list is getting longer again. Sigh. But I am interested in those who are saying that aid is not an obligation, but that they feel compelled to aid others.

It's also goodness for goodness sake. Because it feels good to do something that will helps others.

Some people of course feel good when they are cruel, but usually these kinds of people are the ones torturing animals as children. As children they have been mistreated and left for themselves and never cared for. So they take it out on animals, and later on become sociopaths. Luckily they are few of those.

 

[fuelair]

ah, so you are a Nationalist Socialist.

do you honestly believe that the Swedish people would be hurt if every one of them donating $20 to the International Red Cross' Haiti relief effort?

i pray, I hope, that when Sweden faces a natural disaster, the world does not take the same selfish ethno-centric view that you do.

The world won't. Individuals will, but the world won't.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Here's a related question: How much help do you give compared to how much help you believe you could afford to give?

For example, how much money could you afford to give to help the people of Hiati and what fraction of that amount would you give or have you given?

I could quite easily afford to give about £2000 if I put off some things that I planned to do with my money. But I will not. I've got jobs to do on the new house I've bought; I want a nice holiday in the late summer; I've got hobbies to finance.

Are these ethically valid justifications for not giving what I can afford to help prevent people from dying?

 

[LibraryLady]

Here's a related question: How much help do you give compared to how much help you believe you could afford to give?

For example, how much money could you afford to give to help the people of Hiati and what fraction of that amount would you give or have you given?

I could quite easily afford to give about £2000 if I put off some things that I planned to do with my money. But I will not. I've got jobs to do on the new house I've bought; I want a nice holiday in the late summer; I've got hobbies to finance.

Are these ethically valid justifications for not giving what I can afford to help prevent people from dying?

That's a very interesting question. I looked at my budget for the month and gave what I could without really hurting myself, aside from not buying more new clothes I need. But I didn't really deprive myself. So am I being selfish or am I being reasonable?