UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Astrophotographer]

Fife Symington, later retracted his claim and ridiculed the idea

Actually, it was the other way around. Symington claimed that the Arizona UFO case of 1997 was nonsense in 1997. However, after losing his job as the governor and having dismal prospects, he jumped onto the UFO bandwagon claiming he saw the "craft" reported that night. Now he has some play in the "disclosure/Xpac" movement and is using it to put himself in the spotlight again. My guess is it a move for him to rebuild his image so he can get back into politics. Once that happens, he will dump the UFO disclosure stuff in order to get votes.

 

[Marduk]

Actually, it was the other way around. Symington claimed that the Arizona UFO case of 1997 was nonsense in 1997. However, after losing his job as the governor and having dismal prospects, he jumped onto the UFO bandwagon claiming he saw the "craft" reported that night. Now he has some play in the "disclosure/Xpac" movement and is using it to put himself in the spotlight again. My guess is it a move for him to rebuild his image so he can get back into politics. Once that happens, he will dump the UFO disclosure stuff in order to get votes.

then he seems to now be redacting his own history,

In 2007, Fife said that he had witnessed one of the "crafts of unknown origin" during the 1997 Phoenix Lights event, but noted that he didn't go public with the information.

In an interview with The Daily Courier in Prescott, Symington said:

I'm a pilot and I know just about every machine that flies. It was bigger than anything that I've ever seen. It remains a great mystery. Other people saw it, responsible people. I don't know why people would ridicule it.
—Fife Symington III ,
It was enormous and inexplicable. Who knows where it came from? A lot of people saw it, and I saw it too. It was dramatic. And it couldn't have been flares because it was too symmetrical. It had a geometric outline, a constant shape.
—Fife Symington III ,
However, when he was Governor in 1997, Symington promised he would look into the mass sighting, but then quickly ridiculed it at a press conference where he had his chief of staff dress up in an alien costume, telling reporters that they had found the culprit. His explanation today is that as a public official he felt a responsibility to avoid public panic and therefore tried to introduce some levity into the situation.

But yeah, youre right, its just another case of political ambition

 

[chuck4842]

Jimmy Carter, saw venus and his descriptions of it not only changed wildly over time but were not supported by the 11 people he was standing next to when he witnessed it
Edgar Mitchell, has never claimed to have even seen a ufo and only started believing in them when his income became reliant on a belief in ufology
Fife Symington, later retracted his claim and ridiculed the idea
Paul Hellyer saw a UFO and later assumed it was an alien craft after he watched a tv special on UFO's, he went on to claim that Dubya was planning an intergalactic war

youre right, with this kind of solid evidence Rramjet must be right

what I heard Jimmy Carter didn't sound like venus, and I doubt a retired astronaut with ten times more intelligence than you'll ever have, is struggling with his finances, but then again who isn't in this economy? I dont believe you and heres some more you can discredit that participated in the disclosure project --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All Witnesses
Commander Graham Bethune, US Navy
Major George A. Filer III
Mr. David Hamilton
Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy
Dr. Paul LaViolette
Mr. John Maynard
Mr. Don Phillips
Captain Lori Rehfeldt
Paul Utz
Lt. Col. John Williams
CO James Kopf
Dr. Paul Czysz
Lieutenant Bob Walker
Mr. Michael W. Smith
Professor Robert Jacobs
Dr. Carol Rosin
Mr. Harland Bentley
Lance Corp.Jonathan Weygandt
Dr. Theodore C. Loder III
Dr. Richard Haines
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown
Mr. Mark McCandlish
Lt. Col. Thomas E. Bearden
Sergeant Clifford Stone
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Hodges
Mr. Don Johnson
Mr. Nick Pope
Sgt. Karl Wolfe
Monsignor Corrado Balducci
Dr. Roberto Pinotti
Senator Daniel K. Inouye
Security Officer Larry Warren
Captain Robert Salas
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson
Mr. Richard Crerie
Colonel Ross Diedrickson
Mr. Franklin Carter
Mr. Gordon Creighton
Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell
Lt. Colonel Wojtecki
FAA Division Chief John Callahan
Dr. John C. Kasher, PhD,
Merle Shane McDow
Sgt. Chuck Sorrells

 

[Wolrab]

Respect mah arguement from authoritah!

 

[gambling_cruiser]

Hey chuck4842, are you trying the flinging poo game, hoping something will stick to the wall?

 

[chuck4842]

Hey chuck4842, are you trying the flinging poo game, hoping something will stick to the wall?

No, unlike you and your co-disinformants , I don't retort to insults and slander when confronted with opposing views.

Edited by LibraryLady: 

Edited for incivility.

 

[Marduk]

what I heard Jimmy Carter didn't sound like venus, and I doubt a retired astronaut with ten times more intelligence than you'll ever have, is struggling with his finances,

He's not struggling with his finances as he founded this woo research foundation,
http://www.noetic.org/
but his N.A.S.A. pension is on the same scale as any other government/military pension scheme, do you happen to know how much that is ?

On the Wechsler scale my I.Q. is rated as Very Superior Intelligence, incidentally what is yours ?

but then again who isn't in this economy? I dont believe you

I am not having any financial difficulties at all and haven't had any for a number of years. I retired from full time work when I was 33. This by your statement must mean I am more intelligent than N.A.S.A. astronauts, thanks for that pitiful compliment, the highest I.Q. scores ever recorded for a bunch of astronauts was 141, and it was a group of scientists recruited for shuttle missions. Edgar Mitchell is nowhere near that score, do you happen to know offhand what his actual I.Q. is or was that an unsupported assertion on your part ?

If you don't believe me I'd suggest you look it up for yourself, its called research, admittedly it might be a totally foreign concept for you. Of course when you can't prove any of the post I made factually incorrect I'll expect an apology, I'm not really expecting one of course, whatever lack of integrity or knowledge made you question easily checkable facts in the first place has been proven time and time again to be the same character flaw that has made you "believe" in things without evidence, so you won't be man enough or wise enough to admit you got it wrong will you ?

And just in case you didn't know, I spent around 30 minutes checking out those names, what I posted was based on factually supported statements on credible websites, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it, I never make bare assertions, I leave that to Rramjet and KotA, you just got added to that list, it is not a commendation

so here you go, I'm such a nice person I'll even start you off......

"There were about twenty of us standing outside of a little restaurant, I believe, a high school lunch room, and a kind of green light appeared in the western sky. This was right after sundown. It got brighter and brighter. And then it eventually disappeared. It didn't have any solid substance to it, it was just a very peculiar-looking light. None of us could understand what it was."

compare with

"all of a sudden, one of the men looked up and said, 'Look, over in the west!' And there was a bright light in the sky. We all saw it. And then the light, it got closer and closer to us. And then it stopped, I don’t know how far away, but it stopped beyond the pine trees. And all of a sudden it changed color to blue, and then it changed to red, then back to white. And we were trying to figure out what in the world it could be, and then it receded into the distance."

did you spot the difference ?

add to this that he got the date of the sighting wrong by 9 months and that he has explicitly stated that he does not believe it was an alien craft

and one of his supposed corroborating witnesses

"It seems like there was a little—like a blue light or something or other in the sky that night—like some kind of weather balloon they send out or something ... it had been pretty far back in my mind."

Incidentally at the date and time of his sighting this was visible in the direction he stated

This is Venus

Still think he had a credible sighting of an alien spaceship ?
I will of course continuously ask you this question if you don't give a reasonable answer to it.

and heres some more you can discredit that participated in the disclosure project --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All Witnesses
Commander Graham Bethune, US Navy
Major George A. Filer III
Mr. David Hamilton
Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy
Dr. Paul LaViolette
Mr. John Maynard
Mr. Don Phillips
Captain Lori Rehfeldt
Paul Utz
Lt. Col. John Williams
CO James Kopf
Dr. Paul Czysz
Lieutenant Bob Walker
Mr. Michael W. Smith
Professor Robert Jacobs
Dr. Carol Rosin
Mr. Harland Bentley
Lance Corp.Jonathan Weygandt
Dr. Theodore C. Loder III
Dr. Richard Haines
Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown
Mr. Mark McCandlish
Lt. Col. Thomas E. Bearden
Sergeant Clifford Stone
Admiral Lord Hill-Norton
President Dwight D. Eisenhower
Hodges
Mr. Don Johnson
Mr. Nick Pope
Sgt. Karl Wolfe
Monsignor Corrado Balducci
Dr. Roberto Pinotti
Senator Daniel K. Inouye
Security Officer Larry Warren
Captain Robert Salas
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson
Mr. Richard Crerie
Colonel Ross Diedrickson
Mr. Franklin Carter
Mr. Gordon Creighton
Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell
Lt. Colonel Wojtecki
FAA Division Chief John Callahan
Dr. John C. Kasher, PhD,
Merle Shane McDow
Sgt. Chuck Sorrells

Moved the goalposts didn't you, typical twoofer trick, when youve bothered to research the first few I might bother to read that list. Perhaps you could start by detailing Edgar Mitchells ufo sighting ?


Also can you tell me
1. have you read all the pages in this thread ?
2. do you have any evidence that Aliens exist ?
3. Are you currently or have you ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder ?

 

[carlitos]

Hodges? Hodges? Well then, I'm convinced.

 

[gambling_cruiser]

Hurrah, we have a new toy, the next true believer has arrived!
(That's you chuck)

 

[Vortigern99]

No, unlike you and your co-disinformants , I don't retort to insults and slander when confronted with opposing views. So wheres the pooh other than you?

So you claim you don't insult people, then you immediately call someone a word meaning excrement? What a bizarre self-contradiction.

Pardon me while I consider your credibility entirely shot to, erm... pooh.

 

[chuck4842]

I didn't say Mitchell was a witness to a ufo(yet even more disinformation and putting words in my mouth, constant misquoting) Im submitting his testimony to my previous statement that the government covers up the evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8XaHw-RO0c also if you listen to Jimmy Carters sighting it doesn't sound like venus and I think he'd know if he was looking at a planet or possible star. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrJeBCi47ME I can see by your post you've done alot of research into a subject you laugh and insult proponents of. Why? Why would someone who thinks ufos and aliens are a laughable belief, have so much resources handily available? Do you spend your days finding ways to insult people who dare oppose you?

 

[Marduk]

I didn't say Mitchell was a witness to a ufo(yet even more disinformation and putting words in my mouth, constant misquoting) Im submitting his testimony to my previous statement that the government covers up the evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8XaHw-RO0c also if you listen to Jimmy Carters sighting it doesn't sound like venus and I think he'd know if he was looking at a planet or possible star. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrJeBCi47ME I can see by your post you've done alot of research into a subject you laugh and insult proponents of. Why? Why would someone who thinks ufos and aliens are a laughable belief, have so much resources handily available? Do you spend your days finding ways to insult people who dare oppose you?

Chuck you stated you "don't believe me", this implies that you "don't believe me", I said Mitchell had never witnessed a UFO and you stated that wasn't true when you said you "don't believe me", is English your first language, if so perhaps you could look up the common phrase "putting words in my mouth" and see what it actually means. Yada yada Jimmy Carter, can you see that by his own words he isn't a very good witness and his testimony is destroyed by the other witnesses and by his own claim that it wasn't an alien spacecraft.

Everything I said was true wasn't it, you alluded to that when you said

"I can see by your post you've done alot of research"

and youre very fast to claim that people are insulting you when you're happy to do it yourself, why don't you go cry to mummy, no one here cares about how the facts make you feel if you can't support them

Holy Freaking marolli! ...I'm so out of my league!

truest words you ever said


now chuck how about giving me a point by point rebuttal of my post, you'll never be in Rramjets league if you don't understand how the very simple forum software works

 

[Marduk]

Hurrah, we have a new toy, the next true believer has arrived!
(That's you chuck)

Thats great news, the NWO is paying me overtime for disinfo work already, if the nuts keep appearing like this the Illuminati might give me a bonus too

 

[Withnail]

You Fools,

I have read every post and every link and I have come to the CONCLUSION that Rramjet has proven his LOGIC. Indeed, the UFO Debunkers here have NOT shown ABSOLUTE proof that their mundane explanations are in FACT what was seen. As such, and given the EVIDENCE presented by Rramjet, I am free to HYPOTHESIZE a “small alien super child of wonder” or my SASCOW Theory.

And so I shall present evidence that ALL UFO cases for the last 3000 years are merely this super child projecting mental images of his high-tech toys. This is why there is no physical evidence. It also supports that all witnesses are 100% accurate in what they report seeing. In every case Ramjet has presented, the SASCOW Theory fits and even fills in many of the holes the debunkers have shot into the laughable “interdimensional locals” theory.

I shall begin this process by first proving that children are in fact small. I will supply links to many studies measuring the size of children and let people evaluate the evidence for themselves. Unlike Rramjet, I will freely admit that in SOME cases these small children DO in fact turn out to be blimps, but those cases are RARE.

I shall then go on to prove that children are also super and full of wonder, but one step at a time! I will further show that although the facts that children are small, super and full of wonder do not by themselves show SASCOW, when piled together and melted under heat into a nice lump they then DO prove SASCOW. But first, let us examine the EVIDENCE that children are small.

Childrenaresmall.web

Sesamestreet.com

Thecordonbluereport.web

 

[Astrophotographer]

My guess is this list is way overblown and comes from the disclosure project. Some have legitimate sightings they are describing (they are documented) but others are just off the edge. For instance, do you really find "Clifford Stone" credible? He created the "aviary" myth and has been denounced by many UFOlogists as being a liar (see Kevin Randle's blog and search for Stone). For goodness sakes, Karl Wolfe describes the US government air brushing out structures on the far side of the moon in the Lunar Orbiter photographs. Yes, a lowly sergeant was made privy to this great secret. At least take the time to delete the ridiculous ones and not simply cut/paste.

 

[Marduk]

You Fools,

I have read every post and every link and I have come to the CONCLUSION that Rramjet has proven his LOGIC. Indeed, the UFO Debunkers here have NOT shown ABSOLUTE proof that their mundane explanations are in FACT what was seen. As such, and given the EVIDENCE presented by Rramjet, I am free to HYPOTHESIZE a “small alien super child of wonder” or my SASCOW Theory.

And so I shall present evidence that ALL UFO cases for the last 3000 years are merely this super child projecting mental images of his high-tech toys. This is why there is no physical evidence. It also supports that all witnesses are 100% accurate in what they report seeing. In every case Ramjet has presented, the SASCOW Theory fits and even fills in many of the holes the debunkers have shot into the laughable “interdimensional locals” theory.

I shall begin this process by first proving that children are in fact small. I will supply links to many studies measuring the size of children and let people evaluate the evidence for themselves. Unlike Rramjet, I will freely admit that in SOME cases these small children DO in fact turn out to be blimps, but those cases are RARE.

I shall then go on to prove that children are also super and full of wonder, but one step at a time! I will further show that although the facts that children are small, super and full of wonder do not by themselves show SASCOW, when piled together and melted under heat into a nice lump they then DO prove SASCOW. But first, let us examine the EVIDENCE that children are small.

Childrenaresmall.web

Sesamestreet.com

Thecordonbluereport.web

Excellent POST, suddenly it all makes SENSE, I applaud your INTEGRITY and Intelligence.
I submit THIS as documentary EVIDENCE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Squire_of_Gothos

 

[chuck4842]

I cant find Edgar Mitchell on the site you gave, I did see it was a NON_PROFIT organization, I did rebute your statement maybe a bit generalized but your point was to discredit them all as nuts or not proponents of ufos. My holy moly statement was in reaction to Astro producing weathermaps and pages of technical data of a day in question. Yeah he knows alot about a day he finds laughable.

 

[Marduk]

I cant find Edgar Mitchell on the site you gave,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell#Other_interests

In early 1973, he founded the nonprofit Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) to conduct and sponsor research into areas that mainstream science has found unproductive, including consciousness research and psychic events.

I did see it was a NON_PROFIT organization,

Thats a little irrelevant Non Profit is defined as "an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders". They still pay employees wages. Governments are non profit organisations. The higher up the organisation you are generally the more you get paid. You just don't get a big bonus every christmas
The Institute for Noetic science also appears in Stephen Barretts list of questionable organisations,
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/nonrecorg.html
there are three levels of membership

BASIC MEMBERSHIP CONTRIBUTION LEVEL —
Annual gift of $55; $35 income sensitive rate
(add $10 outside U.S. and Canada)

MONTHLY MEMBERSHIP PROGRAM CONTRIBUTION LEVELS -
•Partners: $10—$19/month ($120—$239/year)
•Allies: $20—$49/month ($240—$599/year)
•Pioneers: $50—$83/month ($600—$999/year)

CIRCLE MEMBERS PROGRAM CONTRIBUTION LEVELS - $1,000 or more total per year

yanno I found it amusing that it costs you money to become a member, but that they don't call that money, they call it an

"Annual gift"

they also have a retreat centre

The IONS Retreat Center is a beautiful collection of indoor and outdoor meeting spaces located on the IONS campus in Petaluma, California. Just 30 minutes north of the Golden Gate Bridge, the Retreat Center is on 200 acres of beautiful rolling hills. It offers such gifts as pristine live oak woodlands, meandering hiking trails, and endless panoramic vistas of the California landscape.

Any idea what 200 acres of beautiful rolling hills in Southern California is worth thesedays ?
I'd make sure they don't serve flavour aid before you go pay them a visit (emphasis on pay)

I did rebute your statement maybe a bit generalized but your point was to discredit them all as nuts or not proponents of ufos.

Now that youve checked what I posted and found it all true, what do you think of those 4, has it changed from what you thought when you said you" don't believe me", when I posted easily checkable facts, do you believe me now ?
And I don't believe I used the term nut at any time, the only nuts here are those trying to claim that UFO's are all Alien spacecraft. You are therefore putting words in my mouth and after I asked you to look the phrase up too, shame on you. Its clear you've hardly read any of this thread too, or you wouldn't be making the same "UFO's" are "Aliens" claim that we've heard so many times. For the record, everyone here believes in UFO's, its just the nuts who "believe" that UFO's are also Alien spaceships. There is no evidence for this at all.

My holy moly statement was in reaction to Astro producing weathermaps and pages of technical data of a day in question. Yeah he knows alot about a day he finds laughable.

You made your statement because AP posted correct and easily verifiable information, I also posted correct and easily verifiable information, so I thought it appropriate


while were here you might also want to ask yourself, what has the Disclosure project ever proven ?

 

[Sledge]

I don't think much of our new UFO guy. Still, if he presents some actual evidence, I'm willing to change my mind.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Meet the new UFO guy, same as the old UFO guy.