The Phoenix Lights... We Are Not Alone

Yep, seems definitive to me. This horse aint dead yet, good try though. Did you notice how long it took for the complex explanation of C114's it took to come out? Alot longer than the illumination flares for warthogs with todays dispensers. Most witnesses claim the V was in restricted B or C (I forget) airspace.
 
Yep, seems definitive to me. This horse aint dead yet, good try though. Did you notice how long it took for the complex explanation of C114's it took to come out? Alot longer than the illumination flares for warthogs with todays dispensers.

Actually, it did not take long at all for the information about a formatin of aircraft being the cause came out. It just was not highly publicized and it did not come from the USAF. The basic facts were there in June of 1997 and it is NOT that complex (BTW, this is before the USAF stated the 10PM lights were flares). The only problem was the identification of the aircraft. This was revealed in the Readers digest article.
Additionally, I suggested the flare dispenses as to how many flares each plane could carry. I could not determine if they were in use in 1997 but they were in use in 1999. The flares can easily be placed on the bomb racks as well. You keep using the "today's dispensers" nonsense as some sort of argument and it is a false one so I suggest you get your facts right before you start typing.

Most witnesses claim the V was in restricted B or C (I forget) airspace.

Witnesses can not judge altitude accurately of lights in a dark sky. The argument against this low altitude flight has to do with the known facts about the case.

FACT 1: The lights moved across the state at a rapid clip, which suggest speeds of 300-400 mph. However, witnesses stated the lights moved at "blimp speed". This can only be possible if the lights were extremely
high and not low as SOME of the witnesses state.

FACT 2: The lights were visible by witnesses many miles apart at a high angles of elevation and at the same time. This can only be possible if the lights were at high altitude and not low as SOME of the witnesses state.

You are also wrong when you say "most"of the witnesses. The last time I asked for names and numbers, you failed to deliver. From the information I gathered less than a third in the original database implied the lights were at low altitude. The others were indifferent or could not determine the altitude.

We also discover when looking at the report that a clear majority (about 75%) did not see one single object behind the lights. The only video of the event shows shifting lights in formation, which CLEARLY DEMONSTRATES that there was no object connected to the lights. Then we have the observations of Mike Fortson who claimed it was a v-shaped object connecting the lights. However, when it passed in front of the moon, it disappeared and the moon became "wavy" and changed color. This is the kind of effect one would expect from aircraft exhaust. Therefore, it seems HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the witnesses who report a single object connecting the lights together were accurate in the reports. The MYTH that there was a huge object flying low over Phoenix that night is based on a few isolated witnesses who got a lot of TV time telling their extraordinary tales. They give the FALSE IMPRESSION that a lot of people saw a huge V-shaped object flying low over Phoenix that night, which is not the case.

If you want to keep repeating this myth over and over, feel free to do so but I am going to keep correcting you. You have yet to provide one solid argument against the formation of aircraft being the source of the 8PM event. The only thing you keep uttering is "I believe the witnesses". Of course, you are highly selective on which witnesses you wish to believe. Your argument is based on a will to believe and not based on critical thinking.
 
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Most witnesses claim the V was in restricted B or C (I forget) airspace.

Technically speaking, B and C airspace is not Restricted, it is controlled.
The class A airspace the formation was in has more conditions set on its use than either class B or C.
For example, any private pilot can fly in B or C airspace if they follow the rules, but to fly in class A, you must have an IFR clearance, requiring an IFR rating.
There is such a thing as Restricted airspace, but class A, B, and C airspace ain't it.

ETA: There is absolutely no reason the formation would be prohibited from being in the B airspace over Phoenix.
That isn't where they were, but you seem to think that saying the airspace is class B or C is an argument for why it couldn't be an airplane. Generally speaking, B airspace is where you have a lot of aircraft movements, thus the need for control.
Personally, I would say aliens making a high speed pass through busy airspace would be evidence for their lack of intelligence.
 
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Hey, I just read that religous ufo cult in California did their suicide act on the same day. I know, doesn't prove nothing. Real freaky though...to me I mean. Thats odd. Like I said reality is more better than fiction. Or was that march 28th? Nevermind.
 
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I thought the weather was clear in Phoenix that evening. At least that is what the weather reports in the papers say from that time period. Looks awful cloudy to me and those are not simple puffy cumulus type clouds. They look like the kind that are associated with a weather system. I don't think that is March 13, 1997 in Phoenix despite what the video claims.

Edit: Just to let you know the papers reported the sky as clear with a high of 87 and a low of 59 for Phoenix that day.
 
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At least you got to see it. Youtube has just now made it unavailable.
Oh well. Heres another one by Jeff, I've been watching for days. If I post it and then it's made unavailable too. That just supports me in my oppinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIh_EBjscfM&feature=channel_page

OK! gone now too. Thanks for trying the obvious. The problem is , I aint proud and don't give a ****.

Heres an entire website dedicated to his findings and shows a " clear day"

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...les+March+1997+video&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
 
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Heres an entire website dedicated to his findings and shows a " clear day"

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cach...les+March+1997+video&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

Again, the stills from the video taken on the 13th of March are shown and, again, the skies are mostly cloudy with the type of clouds that indicate a weather system that was not present. If this is supposed to be the 13th of March, 1997, it is not in Phoenix, which had a clear sky. Therefore, it calls into question the authenticity of the film and the claims made by the videographer. Was it another day and he just decided to say it was the 13th because it was a "red letter day" and he wanted to cash in on the bandwagon? Or maybe his videos are not only of a different day but also digitally manipulated where he inserted some lights that moved around? If he can falsify the date, why can't he go all the way and create a hoax?
 
I've never seen a sunset without some clouds. So , go ahead and show me your reference that day had no clouds.
 
I've never seen a sunset without some clouds. So , go ahead and show me your reference that day had no clouds.

NEVER?????? That is a pretty definitive statement isn't it? I guess you don't watch many sunsets. To add to this, the dry desert air of Arizona tends to make the air clear with very few clouds. Do you want me to show you some pictures of sunsets without clouds? Here is one from Tuscon, AZ:

http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/9/1/9/8/1/ar120653259918919.jpg

No clouds are present, which means clear sunsets do occur. I am sure you can show me plenty of sunsets with clouds but you must realize that many of these are artistic in nature. An ordinary clear sunset is not as dramatic as one with clouds reflecting the suns light. The colors are far more appealing to the eye when cumulus or high clouds are present.

What you seem to fail to understand are the type of clouds visible in the pictures. I am not a weather expert but from what I can tell, they appear to be stratus type clouds. These tend to block out the sun and sky and only leave patchy clear spots. They also tend to occur before and after complex weather patterns (i.e. fronts, thunderstorms, low pressure systems, etc.).

According to the Syracuse Herald (March 14, 1997 issue) the weather report that day from Phoenix was clear. This agrees with all the newspaper archives I have access to on-line. All report the same thing. That being the weather in Phoenix was clear. It was not mostly or partly cloudy but clear. These are the weather maps for the dates in question (March 13, 1997 is on the right). There are no weather patterns in Arizona that would bring in Stratus clouds.

weather313_1497.JPG

Additionally, I looked up the weather observation form for Phoenix that day from the internet. The observations conducted at 5PM showed no precipitation for the dates in question. In fact, most of the month of March was a very dry with ony a trace of rain being recorded.

I also went to the NOAA weather maps for the days in question.

http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/dwm/data_rescue_daily_weather_maps.html

Now the data recorded is for 7AM on the 13th and 14th. Again, no significant cloud cover is recorded. One would expect a layer of stratus clouds to at least be mentioned or noted somewhere.

The NEXRAD radar image for that date was at 2300Z (about 4PM local time).

http://www4.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-win/wwcgi.dll?WWNEXRAD~Images2

It records any significant precipitation. Again, there is no indication of any precipitation in the area. Let's tack on the testimony of the eyewitnesses. All indicated the night was very clear. Fortson saw the moon and many reported seeing the stars that night. Stratus clouds would have prevented seeing stars and the moon from being seen.

The only thing I don't have is the actual satellite image for the date in question. Archives do not go back that far. Since you are the one supporting the claim that this is a video taken on the 13th of March, you have to demonstrate it was on the 13th of March. I have presented evidence that the weather was clear that night and all you have is the claim of the videographer that there was a significant amount of cloud cover that evening. The facts do not support this claim. Feel free to demonstrate there were clouds present in significant quantity and of the type recorded on the tape.

The issue is that there is evidence for a hoax in this video tape. If the videographer, who makes money off of selling his tapes of the phoenix lights, can lie about the date in question, he certainly can lie about it's authenticity. As best I can tell, the video did not even surface until many years later, which is also a red flag. Wouldn't somebody who recorded the Phoenix lights on their video camera want it to appear on the Discovery channel or local media? Wouldn't he want to present this evidence to Village labs? Wouldn't he want to present it to MUFON? None of this happened. Suddenly, years later, he produces this video and sells it as part of a DVD. When you couple this with the weather data, it sends out all sorts of red flags and cries "hoax".
 
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They aren't all deluded, but why jump to the conclusion that aliens are visiting us? Lights in the sky flying in formation are probably planes performing a military exercise as previously mentioned. It's disappointing to think that so many people are willing to bypass logic just to believe.

So it's not that their account of the event is inaccurate, just their explanation of it.
 

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