Inevitable?

[arthwollipot]

Earthrace (the Ady Gil) wasn't designed either to change course quickly or to slam into reverse. If she was keeping station closely enough to the Shonan Maru's course it is entirely possible that the Shonan Maru could have changed course and collided without the Ady being able to evade. In addition whalers, for their size, are very maneuverable. Much more so than many people would expect for a vessel that size.

I am not saying that this is what happened. I am saying that it is quite feasible. I don't know what happened, and I'm not trying to make a case.

Fair enough. I know next to nothing about boats, so I was going on common-sense mass and momentum.

So, stop hunting whales if they are endangered!

What's the problem? It's not like the Canadian seal hunt where it's a sustainable population and the seal over-population encroachs on the fish population which everyone is trying to net and freeze.

But like I said, in the case of Minkes, it is like the Canadian seal hunt. Minkes are the rats of the sea. Hunting them in small numbers is totally sustainable.

 

[lionking]

Erm, minke whales aren't endangered.

ETA, what wolli said. Cross post.

 

[shadron]

The people on the Ady Gil said their boat was dead in the water and the other boat came starboard to ram her. It is pretty obvious the Ady Gil was not dead in the water. If the Shonen Maru did turn right then they must have done it quite a time before the camera started shooting, as a ship of that size won't respond to rudder very quickly. I saw an extended movie of this as the Ady slipped to the stern, and I could not see the Shonen's wake behind her, which I presume would be pretty prominent if she were in a starboard turn; nor could I see any indication of a heeling in either direction. BTW, the Shonen Maru is not a whaler, it is a security vessel, perhaps roughly equivalent to a unarmed WWII naval corvette. One of the tactics that Sea Shepherd uses is to drag ropes and cables across in front of a the whaling ship, hoping to foul the ships propellers. It also doesn't look like very much was required; I'd estimate perhaps two of the Ady's lengths in the time of the movie to the crunch.

Based on what I have seen up to this point, I'd have to say the Sea Shepherd group planned this pretty much the way it happened. I wouldn't put it past them to sacrifice a boat like the Earthrace, including putting it on the right on purpose, for what I would dub the quadragenta effect (no slight intended; it breaks my engineer's heart to see something like that).

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I don't know enough about whales to agree or disagree with Japan's whale hunt, but it's laughable to hear the Sea Shephard people whine about this. They go out there with the sole purpose of harrassing and assaulting people. What did they expect would happen?

Well, if it was deliberate, at least now they know what being subjected to such bullying tactics feels like.

Maybe they'll think twice before cutting nets, ramming boats, burning crops in haz-mat suits, or... ...or maybe I'm being overly hopeful.

It's funny you should use the word "tiger". This incident reminded me all day of that Greenpeace boat called "little fighter" that got run over by an oil tanker in the 80s for similar reasons -- they parked it in front of a larger ship and were surprised when it couldn't stop on a dime after all.

:laughing dog goes here:

 

[shuize]

I used to be neutral on the whaling issue. Given the asshattery of the activists, however, I root for the whalers now.

Seriously.

The Sea Shepherd idiots are deliberately trying to disable ships in the Southern Ocean. Which makes me think they're very lucky they're only getting sprayed with water.

 

[pchams]

Erm, minke whales aren't endangered.

ETA, what wolli said. Cross post.

Fine. Eat at will.

Can I have some?

Stupid PETA-ers....gotta eat don't we.

 

[arthwollipot]

You'll need to go to Japan for that. I'm pretty sure they won't let you have it anywhere else. Except perhaps for Norway.

 

[arthwollipot]

Just thought I'd clear something up. I'm not saying that Japan should be whaling. They shouldn't. It's just that the "endangered species" argument does not apply to Minke whales, which as far as I know are the ones that they kill the most of. It's not like they're taking out the Blues or the Southern Rights.

 

[rjh01]

Trust me to state things without looking them up. Fishing ships have right of way. However neither of the ships were fishing, even for whales. Both were powered, so the rules on sailing ships do not apply. So the rule is

When crossing the path of another craft, the craft on the starboard (right) side has right of way. The craft on the port (left) side must slow and turn to starboard to pass behind the other craft.

However

The general rule is that less manoeuvrable craft have priority over a more manoeuvrable craft.

and

There are other rules governing which is a stand on vessel, such as small ships giving way to big ships...

Ref: http://ezinearticles.com/?Who-Has-the-Right-of-Way-Out-at-Sea?&id=2008807

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Regulations_for_Preventing_Collisions_at_Sea

 

[pchams]

You'll need to go to Japan for that. I'm pretty sure they won't let you have it anywhere else. Except perhaps for Norway.

Good, Im going to Norway in the next couple months. I'll be sure to try that if I can.

 

[quadraginta]

The people on the Ady Gil said their boat was dead in the water and the other boat came starboard to ram her. It is pretty obvious the Ady Gil was not dead in the water. If the Shonen Maru did turn right then they must have done it quite a time before the camera started shooting, as a ship of that size won't respond to rudder very quickly. I saw an extended movie of this as the Ady slipped to the stern, and I could not see the Shonen's wake behind her, which I presume would be pretty prominent if she were in a starboard turn; nor could I see any indication of a heeling in either direction. BTW, the Shonen Maru is not a whaler, it is a security vessel, perhaps roughly equivalent to a unarmed WWII naval corvette. One of the tactics that Sea Shepherd uses is to drag ropes and cables across in front of a the whaling ship, hoping to foul the ships propellers. It also doesn't look like very much was required; I'd estimate perhaps two of the Ady's lengths in the time of the movie to the crunch.

Based on what I have seen up to this point, I'd have to say the Sea Shepherd group planned this pretty much the way it happened. I wouldn't put it past them to sacrifice a boat like the Earthrace, including putting it on the right on purpose, for what I would dub the quadragenta effect (no slight intended; it breaks my engineer's heart to see something like that).

The Shonan Maru 2 is a 52m, 491 ton vessel with its main activity listed as "fisheries". The owner/operator supplied specs list a crew of 9, 16 officers, and 50 "scientists", and a combined wet and dry lab space of 0 ft². It has served as a harpoon ship until recently, when it was re-classed as a "research" ship and allowed back into Australian ports as a result. (I'm still hunting references for this.) ETA: In case it slipped by, a crew of 9 doesn't really need 16 officers. Neither do 50 "scientists", especially with zero lab space. A crew of 59, OTOH ...

You are right, of course about the Sea Shepherd tactics, and I'm assuming that it is not your intent to suggest that the Ady Gil was doing the towing.

I am touched by your naming for me, but it really isn't appropriate, unless you are refering to being heartsick at the loss of such a craft as the Ady, which I am. I hold no particular significance to the Ady's position to starboard of the Shonan Maru. That aspect is of marginal significance to RoW issues in this sort of event.

I think I've mentioned several times that I am not (yet) taking any sort of a position on what happened. I question whether or not Sea Shepherd would have "sacrificed" the Ady for such a stunt. As a scout boat she was unparalleled and irreplaceable, with the range of a cruising vessel, and the speed of a cigarette boat, design built for both in high seas and rough weather. Literally one of a kind. Sea Shepherd has plenty of more expendable craft to sacrifice, as well as ones which are big enough to hold their own in a collision. Which they have in the past.

In what is an eerily prescient post, I stumbled across this comment on an Animal Planet forum ...

Canefanjake
Senior Member
Posted 12-22-09 11:07 AM 12-22-09 11:07 AM Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by Canefanjake:



He said that within a few days the 24-metre trimaran speedboat the Ady Dil would join the anti-whaling campaign, circling the Shonan Maru to create a diversion and helping the Steve Irwin to lose the Japanese ship.


​

This is a great chance for the Shonan Maru to take out the Ady Gil if they start to circle too close. All the Japanese have to do slow down when they circle so they come in closer then speed up fast and nail them in the side. If they can wait for some ice that blocks the Ady Gil on the outside of the loop before they make the move they will have her caught between their steel hull and the hard ice. Let's see how that toy boat runs with one of its out-riggers snapped off. Watson will then have to rescue the Ady Gil and tow his toy boat back to port. That should take about a month.

Highlighting is mine. Note that this comment was made before Xmas.

Some of the other discussion there is interesting as well.

 

[arthwollipot]

Good, Im going to Norway in the next couple months. I'll be sure to try that if I can.

You enjoy that. I've never tried it myself, and I don't particularly care to.

 

[shadron]

There is another view of the incident. It appears that I may have been wrong about the heel; at first it heels port, and looks like its turning toward the other ship, then it heels starboard as if following them as they cross the picture.

Anyone up for a game of chicken? Anyway, the narration is epic.

 

[politas]

That video looks to pretty clearly show that the Shonen Maru deliberately rammed the Ady Gil

And to keep on hitting the boat with a water cannon while it's sinking is especially criminal.

 

[Megalodon]

Yup, dead in the water, the whaler rammed it on purpose. Hope that whomever was on the bridge goes to jail for a very long time.

 

[lionking]

Yup, dead in the water, the whaler rammed it on purpose. Hope that whomever was on the bridge goes to jail for a very long time.

Who's going to charge and prosecute him?

 

[quadraginta]

There is another view of the incident. It appears that I may have been wrong about the heel; at first it heels port, and looks like its turning toward the other ship, then it heels starboard as if following them as they cross the picture.

Anyone up for a game of chicken? Anyway, the narration is epic.

At this point, with more data sure to come in, I'm starting to lean towards something very much like this.

A hypothesis only, not even one I would argue strongly ...

The skipper of the Ady was playing a harassment game, and thinking that the Shonen Maru would never actually "do it", let the Ady get close enough for the Shonan Maru to maneuver into her with plausible deniability. Keeping in mind that both skippers know that there are lots of cameras running on both sides.

There is a history here. Sea Shepherd has played this game before, but the Steve Irwin and the Bob Barker are full fledged ships, both of them of a size or more with the Shonen Maru. The Ady was useful to find the whaling fleet, and to keep their boats delayed until the big guys could move in. This is what she had done this time, basically her maiden voyage for this sea hunt.

I still can't shake the feeling that they would not throw away the Ady Gil so cavalierly. It was a toy, but for their purposes an astoundingly useful one. It had a range from 2,000nm to13,000nm, depending on how much you goosed it, and was designed to motor through 40ft. waves. Not to mention a sticker price half that of their flagship Bob Barker, a 1200 ton icebreaker. It had set a speed record for circumnavigation of the world under power, which pretty much proved its seaworthiness.

I'm going with a test of wills and an unfortunate miscalculation. For now, anyway.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

Good, Im going to Norway in the next couple months. I'll be sure to try that if I can.

It's delicious. Highly recommended.

Also try the reindeer, a fantastic meat similar to venison but better.

 

[quadraginta]

That video looks to pretty clearly show that the Shonen Maru deliberately rammed the Ady Gil

And to keep on hitting the boat with a water cannon while it's sinking is especially criminal.

Yup, dead in the water, the whaler rammed it on purpose. Hope that whomever was on the bridge goes to jail for a very long time.

Who's going to charge and prosecute him?

There's going to be a battle of footage and edits, and testimony of dubious provenance and sincerity, with plenty of sea-lawyering going on. The real kind, not the bitching in the fo'c'sle kind.

 

[arthwollipot]

According to the news the NZ govt is taking it up with Japan.