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Inevitable?

rjh01 said:
Maybe a bit off topic, but at the start of last year I went on holiday to Bateman's Bay in NSW where I photographed the ship. First here are my holiday snaps of the ship. http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.robert3/D090118BatemansBay#

One of these says about the ship http://picasaweb.google.com/robert.robert3/D090118BatemansBay#5292556497203090882.

What an abuse of an unique ship. Not only is it a unique ship, but what it has done is unique.
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Those photos are absolutely beautiful. Many thanks.

Sick. It just makes me sick. And I say this as a longtime sailor, with all the negative baggage about "stinkpots" that that entails.

Some machines transcend function and form in a way that gives them their own unique, unmatchable beauty. The Earthrace was such a thing. I can't imagine the sort of heart, mind, or eye which could contemplate that craft with anything less than awe and glorious wonder. I pity one that could.

For those who haven't already run across it, here is the link to the original Earthrace webpage.
 
quadraginta said:
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I still can't shake the feeling that they would not throw away the Ady Gil so cavalierly. It was a toy, but for their purposes an astoundingly useful one. It had a range from 2,000nm to13,000nm, depending on how much you goosed it, and was designed to motor through 40ft. waves. Not to mention a sticker price half that of their flagship Bob Barker, a 1200 ton icebreaker. It had set a speed record for circumnavigation of the world under power, which pretty much proved its seaworthiness.

I'm going with a test of wills and an unfortunate miscalculation. For now, anyway.
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Yes, whoever was on the Ady Gil made a huge mistake. When playing chicken you must be prepared to lose. They did. Big time. Big mistake. Should not have been anywhere near the Japanese ship. They have only themselves to blame, no matter what the lawyers will eventually say.
 
politas said:
And to keep on hitting the boat with a water cannon while it's sinking is especially criminal.
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Hitting them with the water cannon post colision was the best part. I laughed and hoped they'd turn around and spray them again.

I've never eaten whale in my life but I think I'm going to start.
 
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I'm pretty sure the only law of the sea that applies to pirates is "try to give better than you get". Sea Sheperds' tactics pretty much amount to a naive attempt at achieving the benefits of piracy--getting your way through force--without undertaking the drawbacks--willingness to receive violent returns for violent acts. They're treading a fine line, and I don't see any reason Japanese vessels on the high seas should be obligated to play that game by Sea Shepherds' rules.
 
theprestige said:
I'm pretty sure the only law of the sea that applies to pirates is "try to give better than you get". Sea Sheperds' tactics pretty much amount to a naive attempt at achieving the benefits of piracy--getting your way through force--without undertaking the drawbacks--willingness to receive violent returns for violent acts. They're treading a fine line, and I don't see any reason Japanese vessels on the high seas should be obligated to play that game by Sea Shepherds' rules.
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The overriding rule of the sea is that you must do all in your power to avoid collision without endangering your vessel. Sea Shepherds might be a pain in the arse, but it's simply ridiculous to describe what they are doing as "piracy"--you might as well say that workers lawfully picketing a factory are engagine in "rape and pillage" or that protestors peacefully assembling in a public square are engaged in "riot."

The two videos provided in this thread look to me as if the Japanese ship deliberates turns towards a stationary vessel with intent to ram them. It looks like the skpper of the Ady Gil slams the throttle on at the last second in an attempt to get out of the path of the turning Japanese vessel (hence the wake and propwash in the snippet video from the deck of the Japanese vessel), but fails to clear its bow as it comes round. I think there's a pretty good chance that the captain of the Japanese vessel will end up doing some jail time.
 
Yoink said:
The overriding rule of the sea is that you must do all in your power to avoid collision without endangering your vessel. Sea Shepherds might be a pain in the arse, but it's simply ridiculous to describe what they are doing as "piracy" ...
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The Sea Shepherd idiots are more than mere protesters. Have you ever watched "The Deadliest Catch?" The Southern Ocean is much like the Bering Sea. It's certainly not a college campus where one can just pack up and leave if something goes wrong. If a ship's propeller is fouled (a SS tactic) and is unable to hold a safe course against large waves they could easily lose the ship and all aboard. So, although I don't think the video is as clear cut as you seem to think it is -- if anything, I think it shows the Sea Shepherd boat in the wrong -- if I were the Japanese captain, a water cannon is probably the very minimum response I would take against anyone from Sea Shepherd approaching my ship.

I think there's a pretty good chance that the captain of the Japanese vessel will end up doing some jail time.
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I seriously doubt it.
 
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Yoink said:
The overriding rule of the sea is that you must do all in your power to avoid collision without endangering your vessel. Sea Shepherds might be a pain in the arse, but it's simply ridiculous to describe what they are doing as "piracy"--you might as well say that workers lawfully picketing a factory are engagine in "rape and pillage" or that protestors peacefully assembling in a public square are engaged in "riot."
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Except that what the Sea Shepherds do is marginally "lawful" at best, and certainly not peaceful.

I would be happy to describe people who hurl objects at other people and try to destroy equipment as "rioters."

In the case of Sea Shepards, piracy might not be a good description. Pirates do what they do for money. Eco-terrorists might be a more apt term. The Sea Shepherds are trying to physically impose their political view on others through violence and terror.
 
rjh01 said:
Ady Gil appeared to be speeding up prior to the collision. It was not dead in the water at any stage. What was it doing anywhere NEAR the other ship? After the collision the water jet was not aimed at the ship.
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That video shows the water canon directly hitting the Ady Gil immediately after the impact. You can even hear it on the soundtrack.
 
rjh01 said:
You are right. It briefly hit the rear of the ship then it was aimed away from the ship.
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I don't see it being "aimed away from the ship" I see the ship with the water cannon moving rapidly away from the damanged ship. It's possible the guy manning the water cannon decided to cease targeting a sinking ship (after having deliberately targeted the very portion of the vessel where the people on it were most exposed). It's also possible that that particular water cannon could swivel around far enough for him to continue. What is unquestionably the case, however, is that they deliberately played a water cannon onto a badly damaged vessel that they'd just rammed.
 
arthwollipot said:
According to the news the NZ govt is taking it up with Japan.
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I have a hard time believing anything will come of it, considering that the anti-whalers have been engaging in what is just short of piracy, and not short at all of hostile action, for years now.

I can see it now:

"well, sure...we've allowed them to attack the vessels of your country and attempt to disable them in the open ocean for years now, but we really, really want you to prosecute the crew of your citizens' vessel for attacking a ship with our citizens on board in retaliation".

I have to echo a comment from higher up in the thread. These putzes make me less supportive of their agenda, not more.
 
rjh01 said:
Ady Gil appeared to be speeding up prior to the collision. It was not dead in the water at any stage. What was it doing anywhere NEAR the other ship? After the collision the water jet was not aimed at the ship.
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At least for the time being I'm willing to allow the use of "dead in the water" as a perhaps hyperbolic expression of "not under way". The video from the deck of the Shonan Maru shows what appears to me to be the wake and propwash of a boat holding station until the very last moments before impact, when there was a failed desperate attempt to avoid the collision.

This is why my current working hypothesis is of the "OMG! He's really gonna do it." flavor.

In the interests of further disclosure, I am trying very hard not to have a dog in this fight. I admit to a disapproval of the practice of whale hunting, but my objections are not well thought out and maybe even somewhat wooish, so I can't even articulate them well to myself, much less anyone else.

OTOH, as a sailor and waterman of many years I deplore many of the tactics used by Sea Shepherd. I do not try to justify any of their actions based on some nebulous quality of superior ethics or morality.

It is as a sailor that my concern about this episode is engaged. Regardless of Sea Shepherd's past or potential behavior there is no way to condone the deliberate destruction of a crewed vessel at sea, if this is what occurred. The "David and Goliath" proportions of the vessels involved would make such an action even more egregious. The Ady Gil was not offering a threat of serious deadly harm to the Sonan Maru, and no action offering deadly harm in return can be sanctioned.

I am not sympathetic to tu quoque arguments about how "They did it first." or "They deserved it." These are childish, and the open ocean is no place to use such logic to justify deadly behavior. If this was the result of a deliberate act by the skipper or pilot of the Shonan Maru then they deserve to lose their master's ticket at the very least. Criminal prosecution would be more in order.

Having said all that, if the Ady Gil was put in harm's way by the reckless actions of her master, and it was beyond the ability of the Shonan Maru to avoid contact then the same condemnation applies there.

Right now, from what I have seen so far I am inclined to suspect that the contact was deliberate by the Shonan Maru, that her skipper saw an opportunity with a plausible excuse and took it. But I admit to confirmation bias, and question my own judgment. I have not made up my mind.
 
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