Question regarding James Randi and Gary Schwartz

Rodney said:
I guess it was just a coincidence that in 1933 Cayce mentioned that a death ray would be found in the next 25 years, that work on the laser was going on in the late 1950s, and that a 1972 Time article associated the laser with a death ray.
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Not really. The death ray, or ray gun was not unknown in 1933. It had already been seen in the 1927 film Metropolis, pondered in Popular Mechanics and was featured (with little explaination) in the Flash Gordon comics of the 30's.

To predict that some version would be invented in the next 25 years wasn't a stretch.
 
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bookitty said:
Not really. The death ray, or ray gun was not unknown in 1933. It had already been seen in the 1927 film Metropolis, pondered in Popular Mechanics and was featured (with little explaination) in the Flash Gordon comics of the 30's.

To predict that some version would be invented in the next 25 years wasn't a stretch.
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The key thing is the association of the laser with a death ray, which, rather obviously, our esteemed colleagues madurobob and Dancing David were unaware of.
 
Rodney said:
The key thing is the association of the laser with a death ray, which, rather obviously, our esteemed colleagues madurobob and Dancing David were unaware of.
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Interesting. Do you have the exact phrasing that associates it with the laser? Sadly, it wouldn't prove much but it would be fascinating.
 
This really seems to be an unimpressive claim. Surely it would make more sense to praise Gene Roddenberry's psychic powers for predicting the mobile phone in Star Trek?
 
Rodney said:
The key thing is the association of the laser with a death ray, which, rather obviously, our esteemed colleagues madurobob and Dancing David were unaware of.
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No, the key thing is the complete lack of a death ray, in 1958 or today.
 
bookitty said:
Interesting. Do you have the exact phrasing that associates it with the laser? Sadly, it wouldn't prove much but it would be fascinating.
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So, even if Cayce had mentioned that the death ray that would be discovered would be called a laser, you would still score that as a miss?

P.S. I do have the exact phrasing of our esteemed colleagues, which some cynics might think shows that their knowledge of lasers in 2010 is less than Cayce's was in 1933: ;)

madurobob: "Haha! Seriously? The laser is a death ray?"

Dancing David: "That is just super Rodney, the death ray of my CD/ROM. It is not much of a 'death ray' now is it?"
 
Rodney said:
So, even if Cayce had mentioned that the death ray that would be discovered would be called a laser, you would still score that as a miss?
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If Cayce had called this death ray a "laser" specifically and if he had done so in 1933, I would find that very interesting. Of course, I would have to read it in context to find out how interesting.
 
bookitty said:
If Cayce had called this death ray a "laser" specifically and if he had done so in 1933, I would find that very interesting. Of course, I would have to read it in context to find out how interesting.
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Cayce specifically called it a "death ray". But, the fact that we had no death ray in 1958 and still have no death ray 50 years later may well be considered a "hit" rather than a "miss" by Cayce's followers. You see, often they claim that all those prophesies weren't really visions of the future, but visions of a possible future. So, the prophesies of doom and gloom and despair were not really prophesies, but warnings. Seen this way, every single one of Cayce's failed disaster predictions was really a gift to mankind - a warning that was heeded; a disaster averted.

Interestingly, I can say the same thing about my Magic 8 Ball.
 
Rodney said:
I guess it was just a coincidence that in 1933 Cayce mentioned that a death ray would be found in the next 25 years, that work on the laser was going on in the late 1950s, and that a 1972 Time article associated the laser with a death ray.
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You do realize that using your "logic" that Cayce prediction could have described to different technologies right? The first technology to exhibit stimulated emission was not the LASER but the MASER. So pray tell what technology was Cayce referring to?
 
madurobob said:
Cayce specifically called it a "death ray". But, the fact that we had no death ray in 1958 and still have no death ray 50 years later may well be considered a "hit" rather than a "miss" by Cayce's followers. You see, often they claim that all those prophesies weren't really visions of the future, but visions of a possible future. So, the prophesies of doom and gloom and despair were not really prophesies, but warnings. Seen this way, every single one of Cayce's failed disaster predictions was really a gift to mankind - a warning that was heeded; a disaster averted.

Interestingly, I can say the same thing about my Magic 8 Ball.
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Waitaminnit, is this the crystal from Atlantis that was suppose to power the world? It's been a while, I am probably remembering it incorrectly because I'm not sure the Atlantis crystal was used as a death ray. Besides, who would use that as an example of Cayce being correct?
 
kuroyume0161 said:
Someone who wants to move goal posts and stretch parameters for greatest coverage, maybe?
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Yes, indeed. A quick google search reveals that this "Death Ray" is technology from Atlantis. Which explains why my questions about context were never answered.
 
bookitty said:
Waitaminnit, is this the crystal from Atlantis that was suppose to power the world? It's been a while, I am probably remembering it incorrectly because I'm not sure the Atlantis crystal was used as a death ray. Besides, who would use that as an example of Cayce being correct?
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Yes, indeedy! The "death ray" was the crystal power Atlantis used both as a terrible world-destroying weapon and as some form of communication. They got lazy and arrogant and were destroyed by the crystal power.

Or something like that.

And its an example of being "correct" in that Cayce issued what could be considered a "warning" that the crystal power death ray would be discovered within 25 years (by 1958). Obviously, people thought twice about this knowing what happened to Atlantis and decided to keep the discovery secret, thus saving humanity. Thanks Edward!
 
madurobob said:
Yes, indeedy! The "death ray" was the crystal power Atlantis used both as a terrible world-destroying weapon and as some form of communication. They got lazy and arrogant and were destroyed by the crystal power.

Or something like that.

And its an example of being "correct" in that Cayce issued what could be considered a "warning" that the crystal power death ray would be discovered within 25 years (by 1958). Obviously, people thought twice about this knowing what happened to Atlantis and decided to keep the discovery secret, thus saving humanity. Thanks Edward!
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Now all someone has to do is find evidence that such science/technology to use a crystal as a death ray and for communication was known by 1958 and that it was surpressed/destroyed/hidden. -hands off to conspiracy theorists-

While it is true that crystals are used in communications (this had been true some time prior to Cayce's prediction) - see piezoelectricity (discovered in 1880!) used in radios (quartz crystal oscillator) - I cannot find any information about 'death rays' being researched using crystals.

Archimedes supposed 'death ray' did not use crystals but possibly highly-polished copper mirrors reflecting sunlight. Some tests show that it does work but not to the scale touted by any degree. The only information found so far is this:

http://www.panoptesv.com/SciFi/DiffractiveCavities.html

And that is admittedly 'SciFi' in nature.
 
Cayce was such a putz. Why do people lower their standards that way?

Give me NIKOLA TESLA! every time! Now there was the nearest we'll ever come to finding a genuine, honest-to-pete mad genius. Unlike Cayce, he was a man of science (well...at least most of the time) and a helluvan engineer: he gave us AC, radio, neon lighting, the bladeless turbine, and enough lesser-known inventions to fill warehouses.

Even in his decline, Tesla could kick Cayce'a rather small butt. Death rays? Hell, Tesla said he was just about to put one on the market. He was just about to communicate with the Martians. He was just about to power the whole world with broadcast energy. He was just about to get backing for all those things and countless others. And I, by god, wish he had.

There are Tesla cultists to this day, and, unlike the poor Cayce believers, they can provide hard evidence for (some of) their hero's supernaturalistic powers. New Tesla wrinkles still come to light from his surviving papers.

Who knows what real and amazing things were destroyed in that fire in Tesla's lab? But if E. Cayce had never lived, what earthly difference would it make?
 
kuroyume0161 said:
And that is admittedly 'SciFi' in nature.
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Since when did 'SciFi' in nature come to mean parts that need to be found in every single LASER on the face of the earth. Its called an etalon. It works. Its real. Its not even close to what Archimedes supposedly came up with.
 
technoextreme said:
Since when did 'SciFi' in nature come to mean parts that need to be found in every single LASER on the face of the earth. Its called an etalon. It works. Its real. Its not even close to what Archimedes supposedly came up with.
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I wasn't comparing Archimedes 'death ray' to a LASER death ray except to qualify that it wasn't based upon crystals (which came up a few times while searching for 'death ray'). It should also be added that Cayce's prediction was about an Atlantean death ray which puts it squarely within the realm of Archimedes' time frame. If Atlantis actually existed (as mythicized) then it is possible that someone like Archmideses may have had knowledge of their technology. Of course, it is very, very unlikely that Atlantis as portrayed ever existed.

Never said that we couldn't theoretically build a LASER-based death ray today. Just that we don't have one mainly because it is IMPRACTICAL. Yeah, I know that lasers are used for machine cutting - these are not very practical for weapon use otherwise. If you have any references to something military-grade as a laser used to kill enemy combatants, I'm all eyes. :p
 
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Rodney said:
So, even if Cayce had mentioned that the death ray that would be discovered would be called a laser, you would still score that as a miss?
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Yes! Even if he mentioned Paris Hilton's miraculous push-up bra, that would STILL be a miss!

You know why? Because skeptics are evil. EVIL, I tell you!

Also, they prefer not to debate the veracity of purely hypothetical incidents.
 
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