What sort of factchecking do you mean? Here's a list I posted on a different forum. Maybe you can give me some examples of how they don't hold up:
Quote:
Here's a larger collection of quotes from witnesses who claim to have seen the plane hitting the pentagon. I'm sorry if this seems excessive or redundant, but I obviously haven't been driving my point home.
The worker, William Middleton Sr., was running his street sweeper through the cemetery when he heard a harsh whistling sound overhead. Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft.
Middleton said the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon. The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building.
"My sweeper has three wheels. I almost tipped it over as I watched," Middleton said.
www.s-t.com/daily/12-01/12-20-01/a02wn018.htm
Middleton is an NOC witness. NOC = NO IMPACT.
You´ll notice too that in that entire piece Middletons only quoted words are
"My sweeper has three wheels. I almost tipped it over as I watched,"
How did he almost ´tip over´ from the OTHER side of the Annex to where the plane allegedly flew according to you?
William Middleton
upper end of ANC buildings
http://www.thepentacon.com/WMiddleton.mp3
William Middleton: As I made a turn to come back I heard this whistling noise as if it was coming behind me. So when I turned to look, I seen this big large airplane beside me.
CMH officer: Where were you at?
Middleton: Uh Patton Drive.
...And he glazed over like our parking lot here and made a turn toward the Pentagon….
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/middletonpath1-2.jpg
"I was standing on the platform high above the [Washington Reagan] airport awaiting a Metro subway train to my office in the heart of the district, on Constitution Avenue, admiring the lovely blue skies when I saw the plane hit and the fireball and explosion at the Pentagon. At first, I didn't believe what I saw. At about the same time, the train approached the platform, and I remember turning to a fellow passenger and asking, 'What should we do?'
-- Susan Carroll
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-onlin...10395718.shtml
Mind telling me how she could possibly have seen anything, never mind an ´impact´ from here?
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/SusanCarroll-2.jpg
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/carrollmetro.jpg
Impossible.
First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles, then headed directly for the Pentagon and crashed on the lawn near the west side the Pentagon. A huge fireball exploded with thick black smoke. Fire and rescue vehicles arrived soon thereafter and begin to attempt to put out the fire and rescue victims. Since then, the West side of the Pentagon has collapsed and is still smouldering. The city of Washington, DC and Northern Virginia where the Pentagon and many other defence-related facilities are located is under a state of emergency and high alert, with helicopters and F-16s flying overheard. The enormity of what we witnessed and what has happened has just begun to sink in. We just thank God we are okay and that it happened in Washington, DC where we are prepared to handle situations such as this.
D. S. Khavkin, Arlington, VA, USA
http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoud...-s-khavkin.htm
This is the only Khavkin that lives on the top floor of an 8 story building in Arlington within range of the Pentagon:
http://www.google.com/search?q=(703)+521-3847&hl=en&pb=r&sa=X&oi=rwp&ct=title
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/arl2001pikeC.jpg
From the ROOF of this apartment to the immediate right of the Sheraton the top floor the top right hand corner of the Pentagon can be seen.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/khavkinpov-1.jpg
There is NO view of the lightpoles OR the ´impact zone´ and DEFINITELY no view of the lawn.
These people were allegedly interviewed 2 days after the attack when
details were widely known.
Whatever the reason, there is no view of anything detailed in the account.
On Sept. 11, I was standing in a break room of an office . . . in downtown D.C., when I looked out the window to see an airplane descend into the side of the Pentagon, where the Navy offices where five friends and colleagues of mine were located. Twenty-four hours earlier, I had been in the Pentagon visiting those friends and others in the building.
As I watched the fireball and during the evacuation of Washington that followed, I can remember being overwhelmed by two things -- what can I do to help, and how never again would I leave a friend or loved one without telling them how much I cared for them.
-- Lesley Kelly, Cmdr. U.S. Navy (Ret.), Gresham
web.archive.org/web/20021218082116/http:...1031572536213280.xml
´Downtown D.C.´?
The west face of the Pentagon cannot be seen from here and it is too far for anybody to be called a witness to an ´impact´
Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military.
'Nobody could believe it'
"There was a big boom," he said. "Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled ‘Did you see that?' Nobody could believe it."
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ttack-usat.htm
This is a reporter´s version. Nowhere is he directly quoted on any ´impact´
´There was a loud boom´...That´s it.
Ann Krug's kindergarten class saw the plane crash outside the classroom's window.
"I actually pointed it out and said: 'Look at this plane; look at how low it's flying,' " Krug recalled. "And then we all saw it come down."
www.arlingtoncemetery.net/rjhymel.htm
Here is the school.
It is a two story building.
Here is the view from the I-395 in the direction of the Pentagon/Navy Annex, of the school (the POV is VERY limited)
This is
the view looking towards the Navy Annex.
Remember that the streetview cam is one metre above the car.
There is NO view of the Pentagon.
"The plane exploded after it hit, the tail came off and it began burning immediately. Within five minutes, police and emergency vehicles began arriving," said Vin Narayanan, a reporter at USA TODAY.com, who was driving near the Pentagon when the plane hit.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/.../washscene.htm
Scott Perry of Spotsylvania County heard a plane's engines rumbling above the Navy Annex building where he works, so he looked out his window, which faces the Pentagon.
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/F...inter_friendly
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/17/first-person.htm
¨At 9:35 a.m., I pulled alongside the Pentagon. With traffic at a standstill, my eyes wandered around the road, looking for the cause of the traffic jam. Then I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed straight at the Pentagon.¨
http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20020909002/tscript.htm
¨ Actually, that huge fireball exploded right toward me. I was on the road right next to where the American Airlines jet hit Pentagon wall. That wall is about 50 yards from the road. I was listening to the WTC coverage as well when I looked up to the left and saw a plane flying at my car. At first, I thought it was heading toward National just to get out of the air. But the closer it got, the more it looked like it was going to hit my car. The tail of the jet clipped an overhanging exit sign above me on it's way down. Then it slammed into the Pentagon wall.¨
Given his description, he places himself
here.
´alongside the Pentagon´,´jet flying right at me´,¨over my head¨,
¨The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me¨
His next interview reinforces his positioning:
´that huge fireball exploded right toward me. I was on the road right next to where the American Airlines jet hit Pentagon wall. That wall is about 50 yards from the road.¨
Here is the view from the roadsign beside which the first 2 lightpoles which were allegedly struck.
It is taken from the Southbound lanes. he was allegedly two lanes over at a more acute angle to the ´impact zone´.
Does ANY of the above testimony correspond with this POV?
Is this ´50 yards (150 feet)´ from the explosion? Could the fireball go ´right toward´ him?
How could he NOT see the lightpoles being struck if he was here?
How could he see this overhead sign beside the poles being struck by the TAIL of the plane? How could he NOT see Lloyd England´s cab being speared by a lightpole??
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/naranyan.jpg
More on witnesses who corraborate his positioning,that of the ´signpost being struck´ and pinpointing the area of Route 27 where the plane entered this road can be found here:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=873
And to show the fictional, creational side of Naranyan, only to be expected of a journalist here are further quotes from him:
¨The plane actually skidded off the ground before it hit the wall¨
¨the Pentagon's wall held up like a champ. It barely budged as the nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball.¨
¨I think I saw the bodies of passengers burning. But I'm not sure. It could have been Pentagon workers.¨
¨the tail came off and it began burning immediately¨
IF Naranyan is continued to be labelled an ´impact witness´, his testimony describes the plane as coming from the NOC direction.
His testimony makes the damage according to the official path IMPOSSIBLE. AND the path he described is corraborated from various angles. Most notably, Robert Turcios and Sean Boger. Two concrete NOC witnesses who even describe the aforementioned signpost in their testimonies (contained in the above link). Verified, confirmed.
I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, “holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car” (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.
And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire. Now I wanted to get as far away as I could, but that was impossible. The people around me had gotten out of their cars. At least half had cameras and the others were on their cell phones. I experienced a moment of irrelevant amazement that so many people had cameras in their cars.
-Christine Peterson
http://www.naualumni.com/site/apps/s...7233&ct=489385
Like Frank Probst, this witness puts herself ´in front of the helipad
at the Pentagon´.
Her story corraborates the entrance of the plane onto Route 27 at the same point other witnesses in the same vicinity do, at the point where Robert Turcios claims to have seen the plane ´lift´.
This is covered here:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=873
Here is her described position on the road.
Lightpole 1 is almost 180º behind her as is the straight official path behind it. The first roadsign is the one Turcios describes.
The one barely visible behind this one, looking through the car´s blindspot, is where
lightpole 1 is.
She said she ´looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane´. Does this sound like she stretched her head right round behind her?
Tell me, can you even SEE the official path BEHIND lightpole 1?
Then she says ´The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing.´
How can this be true when here view of the plane as it allegedly crashed via the official path would have looked like this?
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/simulation1.jpg
´Then the plane crashed.´
Does that actually sound like the account of someone who saw something so dramatic?
She is obviously convinced she saw an ´impact´ but given the absolute contradictions to the official path and hence, subsequent damage, this is an impossibility.
To me, it appears she has left out the description of what happened from the plane flew over her car to actually reaching the facade.
The plane flew over, ´low´, her car ´shook´, she had actually thought that the plane was going to hit her car. What would you do at this very point? Duck? Close your eyes? Or would you continue to follow the plane with your eyes? The official speed of 540mph would have the plane hit the wall within a fraction of a second.The explosion was instantaneous. A 200ft diameter fireball and a blastwave that was felt 3km away.
The distance between the origin of the fireball and the road in front of the Pentagon(route 27) where she was situated is @100m / 300ft. The fireball was within 100ft of reaching her. The plane would have allegedly taken 0.4 seconds to reach the facade from this same point.
Even at 300kts we are talking in fractions of seconds to cross the lawn.
Add to this the fact that the plane was nowhere near the lightpoles
given her description (which is corraborated) these factors must be explained before she can be called an ´impact witness´
Dennis Smith, a building inspector and former Marine, was smoking a cigarette in the center courtyard when he heard the roar of engines and looked up in time to see the tail of a plane seconds before it exploded into the building. He took off toward the crash to help get people out of the building. "I looked up to the third floor - there were people banging on the windows. The smoke was filling up, and then they were just gone."
www.govexec.com/features/1001/1001spec1.htm
Are you serious? There would have been no view from within the centre court of the Pentagon.
Even his stated view of ´the tail of a plane seconds before it exploded´ is an impossibility. Unless it was MUCH higher.
Here is an idea of the view from the interior
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djqhibAiqb0
The walls are over 70 feet tall.
There are trees all over this court as we can see from this aerial shot taken less than a week before the event:
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/pentagon4days-1.jpg
...further obstructing any possible view.
He said that he caught the sight of the plane´s tail seconds before it ´exploded into the building´.
The only POSSIBLE chance he may have had to see it was when it was flying over the Navy Annex.
But even this would have been quite an achievement as we can see from the view of the Pentagon from the Sheraton Hotel at roughly the same height that many witnesses claim it flew over:
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/viewfromrooftoppool.jpg
Even given the extra height of the tail it would still be impossible.
From the edge of the Navy Annex we can see the view of the centre court is non-existent.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/annex1.jpg
Even if another 100ft were added to altitude the top floor or two MAY come into view.
In fact the altitude necessary to catch a glimpse of the tail would be a couple of hundred feet lower than this image:
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/aerialpentagon1.jpg
He could NOT physically see the tail of the plane from the Navy Annex onwards. The only way he could have seen it is if he saw it as it passed over the Pentagon. Not speculation. Just stating a fact.
TIMMERMAN: I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as is went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building.
And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible.
Here is Timmerman´s ´panoramic view´
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/timmVig-1.gif
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/timview.jpg
His view was obstructed. The plane disappeared from his view seconds after passing the Sheraton. What was he doing? Watching the exact spot of the explosion after that hirise to catch the alleged 0.3 seconds ´window´?
He claimed the plane desintegrated on the lawn before ´hitting the building´
He has obviously caught the explosion as it went off.
"I was sitting in the northbound on 27 and the traffic was, you know, typical rush-hour -- it had ground to a standstill. I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up, it's really low.'
"And I saw it. I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon.
-Mike Walter
www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/witnesses/index.html
I think images speak a thousand words. Especially for this guy.
He admitted the plane went out of his view and then he saw the fireball.
He describes the plane ´banking´.
"It seemed like it was a slow, graceful bank and then once it straightened out, that's when it sped up."
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/walter-NoC.gif
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/walterbankgif.gif
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/walterstories.jpg
He is not an ´impact´ witness and he contradicts the official flight path with the assertion that he saw the plane banking.
His thoroughly confusing testimony is covered here:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=906
"I watched this - it looked like a commuter plane, two-engined come down from the south real low proceed right on and crash right into the Pentagon. I watched it come in very low over the trees and it just dipped down and came down right over 395 right into the Pentagon."
-Don Wright
http://www.sunspot.net/news/custom/a...s-ra.realaudio
This guy was allegedly watching from his 12th floor office in Roslyn.
There is a view from the NINETEENTH floor zoomed in in this video (00:04-00:20)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fhze_lauren-ashburn_news
From 7 floors below how would this person get ANY perspective of the approach of the plane?
He describes it as a commuter jet.
He also says that it was ´very low over the trees and it just dipped down´ . It went out of his sight?
Look at the trees between this building and the Pentagon in the video.
He never said he saw an impact. Again, weak.
How can these alleged witnesses who were miles away even be compared to or used as a counterargument to the NOC witnesses??
"I saw the tail of a large airliner ... It ploughed right into the Pentagon."
-Dave Winslow
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september1...600839,00.html
Wow, even detractors (with a bit of honesty) won´t touch this quote.
His original quote which became twisted along the way:
David Winslow, a reporter with AP's Broadcast News Center in Washington, was sitting in his tenth-floor apartment, looking out at the capital, when he saw a jumbo tail go by him. "I heard this enormous sound of turbulence. . .As I turned to my right, I saw a jumbo tail go by me along Route 395. It was like the rear end of the fuselage was riding on 395. I just saw the tail go whoosh right past me. In a split second, you heard this boom. A combination of a crack and a thud. It rattled my windows. I thought they were going to blow out. Then came an enormous fireball."
http://www.ap.org/BreakingNews/quote.html
In the 8th video down the witness saw the plane hit the pentagon. Additionally he claims a piece of the plane hit his car, breaking his windshield. He brought into the news studio with him.
Elhallan, Aziz (debris guy you mention)
He claims he was on route 27 for "a good 20 minutes" after the event.
But here he is up at the Navy Annex in the very first Jason Ingersoll image that was taken less than 5 minutes after the event.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/aziz3.jpg
Ingersoll confirmed this.
He is also quoted as saying "most of the cars had their windshields broken because of the sound of the airplane." No they didn´t.
How did he get from his alleged position on Route27 to here within less than 5 minutes given the heavy traffic AND the fact that people had stopped dead on the roads when the explosion occurred.
Why did he say he was there for ´20 minutes´?
Caught lying.
In the 3rd and 4th videos down witnesses saw parts of the plane.
Here pilot Steve O'Brien recounts a view of the crash from above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ag6brfWro
I hope this will be the last time I have to quote this guy O´Brien.
When I saw the initial explosion I was not able to see exactly where or what it had impacted, but remember trying to approximate a position to give to ATC.
-Lt Col Steve O'Brien
I could go on but the rest are anonymous initialled quotes (some of which don´t even mention an ´impact´ or contradict NOC.
The rest have been discussed already.
