8 out of 8 at Citgo station

[twinstead]

And NONE contradicts an impact with the Pentagon. NONE.

 

[W.D.Clinger]

You´ll have to go to their forum and argue your point with him.

That won't work. Rob Balsamo runs PfT, and has a well-documented history of banning posters who disagree with him.

Note well, for example, that Balsamo has banned Tino Desideri (Turbofan), his co-author on the paper you cited.

 

[Baylor]

Tell me, do you still believe ´NOC or SOC, the plane still impacted the building´?

Based on the critierion set by Craig Ranke.....yes.

edit: see this post and read the thread for further discussion.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4398631#post4398631

 

[mudlark]

The larger debris from the plane crashing into the wall and breaking up (material either going through wall or being reflected), lighter debris as a result of the explosion/fireball going in all directions?

Now you´re stretching it.

The wind was blowing in a southern direction as can be seen here from 32 seconds onwards

Those pieces of debris could NOT physically float towards his alleged position.

He was closer to the heliport.

 

[mudlark]

Based on the critierion set by Craig Ranke.....yes.

edit: see this post and read the thread for further discussion.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4398631#post4398631

Let´s be clear.
How is it remotely possible for the plane to fly NOC, veer to the right (at the alleged 540+mph and veer again to the left to get lined up to hit the first lightpoles, meanwhile manouevring into a low level trajectory to cause the alleged damage?
All within a 3.7 second timeframe?
NOC is the point of no return. No play on words will change this fact.

 

[BCR]

Apparently they were very light/small pieces of debris The debris is concentrated to the Northwest of the facade.
He claimed that the debris was floating, physically, about him.

Check the DCA ASR radar data. Debris was floating in the air and acting just like chaff. Two minutes later, debris was still falling in the Doubletree Hotel parking lot and as far away as Reagan (DCA).



But this screen capture of the DCA radar combined with the ATC audio and GOFER06 pilot's as it happened pretty much destroys the speculation. The plane crashed in the area of the Pentagon. The GOFER06 pilot did not see it flying over and beyond. He saw a 757 and tracked it all the way in and down to the Pentagon, never to be seen again.

Now go fish...

By the way, the DCA controller marks the AAL77 primary as "S" (the one also labeled "LOOK").

 

[alexi_drago]

Now you´re stretching it.

The wind was blowing in a southern direction as can be seen here from 32 seconds onwards

Those pieces of debris could NOT physically float towards his alleged position.

He was closer to the heliport.

I'm stretching it?

You're the one saying someone caught in this would describe it as fine floating debris as it rained down on him.
http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/db_Confetti12.jpg

Those pieces of debris could NOT physically float towards his alleged position.

What do you think explosions do?

 

[mudlark]

Check the DCA ASR radar data. Debris was floating in the air and acting just like chaff. Two minutes later, debris was still falling in the Doubletree Hotel parking lot and as far away as Reagan (DCA).



But this screen capture of the DCA radar combined with the ATC audio and GOFER06 pilot's as it happened pretty much destroys the speculation. The plane crashed in the area of the Pentagon. The GOFER06 pilot did not see it flying over and beyond. He saw a 757 and tracked it all the way in and down to the Pentagon, never to be seen again.

Now go fish...

By the way, the DCA controller marks the AAL77 primary as "S" (the one also labeled "LOOK").

Yeah, in what direction is the Doubletree Hotel as regards the Pentagon?
There is NO WAY tiny bits of debris light enough to float would travel through the directional blast AND the wind. Give it up.

Your C130 ´quote´ is totally contradicted by the pilot himself

When I saw the initial explosion I was not able to see exactly where or what it had impacted, but remember trying to approximate a position to give to ATC.
-Lt Col Steve O'Brien

He eventually made out the smoke rising from the Pentagon. How could he possibly have spotted a plane??

Fail.

 

[beachnut]

Let´s be clear.
How is it remotely possible for the plane to fly NOC, veer to the right (at the alleged 540+mph and veer again to the left to get lined up to hit the first lightpoles, meanwhile manouevring into a low level trajectory to cause the alleged damage?
All within a 3.7 second timeframe?
NOC is the point of no return. No play on words will change this fact.

Sorry, 77 was going 483 KIAS and it was flying a true track course of 61.5 degree for the last few seconds, so your failed NoC is pure nonsense based on delusional rants of idiots at CIT.

RADAR and all the witnesses verify this flight path if only you had been trained in aircraft accident investigation.
Morons invented the NoC.

The C-130 pilot knows 77 impacted the Pentagon, because the only jet-fuel fireball that day at the Pentagon was from 77. This is funny as you have nothing to refute the jet-fuel fireball, or the damage to the Pentagon that is exactly to the joule that of kinetic energy impact from a 757.

Did you ask the C-130 pilot if he supports your moronic delusion?

 

[alexi_drago]

There is NO WAY tiny bits of debris light enough to float would travel through the directional blast AND the wind. Give it up.

What direction did the blast go?

 

[BCR]

Yeah, in what direction is the Doubletree Hotel as He eventually made out the smoke rising from the Pentagon. How could he possibly have spotted a plane??
Fail.

The DT is south, and yes, you can see the debris falling on the DT north video. You can track the fine debris cloud on radar drifting to the south-southeast.

No mudlark, the plane 'disappeared' in the vicinity of the Pentagon. He and the DCA tower controllers would have seen it if it went beyond the Pentagon, not to mention you would see it on the radar. Show it to me please.

All that is seen is the 'coast track' which projects from the last return looking for another. After 4 sweeps, if it does not find a primary return, the 'coast track' ends. It did not find a plane beyond the Pentagon. Neither did the other 3 ASR radars at IAD, BWI and ADW. What happened to the plane mudlark?



Here is one made using the raw DCA data without the coast track. Where did the plane go mudlark?

 

[Baylor]

Let´s be clear.
How is it remotely possible for the plane to fly NOC, veer to the right (at the alleged 540+mph and veer again to the left to get lined up to hit the first lightpoles, meanwhile manouevring into a low level trajectory to cause the alleged damage?
All within a 3.7 second timeframe?
NOC is the point of no return. No play on words will change this fact.

You seem to have a hard time understanding this. Even CIT realized they dug themselves into a hole they could not climb out of. All "independently verified testimonies" trump "official story reports." Let ex-JREFer/CIT groupie TheLoneBedouin explain:

Particularly since the crime that is implicated by such evidence logically means that manipulation of data (such as fabrication or twisting of media quotes out of context) would be a factor.

We have two "independently verified testimonies" (Lagasse and England) that put the light poles North of Citgo. So the light poles were north of citgo. The plane rammed into the pentagon, just like the witnesses said. Let TheLoneBedouin explain further:

Especially since only first-hand witness accounts are considered evidence anyway. Anything less is considered hearsay.

According to your heros, the south side light pole damage "is just hearsay," not a fact.

 

[mudlark]

I'm stretching it?

You're the one saying someone caught in this would describe it as fine floating debris as it rained down on him.
[qimg]http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/db_Confetti12.jpg[/qimg]



What do you think explosions do?

Again, here is Probst´s alleged position according to the official story

http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu311/buckwheat_bucket/official_flight_pathprobst.jpg

The photo of the debris is on the heliport which is still 40-50 metres from the path.
The point of explosion to his alleged position is almost 200m.
How does an explosion hurl heavier debris to the North yet lighter debris in the opposite direction?
It didn´t get blasted towards him, it was airborne and reached him allegedly within less than 5 seconds

As the fireball from the crash moved toward him, Probst
ran toward the South Parking Lot and recalls falling down twice.

I have major problems with this description too.
The plane crossed the lawn in 0.4 seconds according to official story, the fireball lasted 5 seconds to reach full expansion, yet he dove to the ground, got up as the blast was detonating and ran towards the fireball as this debris ´floated´ about him?

He also says it was ´wing debris´...how fine was the debris that he could distinguish this?

Again he could ONLY have been at the heliport area for ANY debris to have reached him.

 

[Thunder]

Um..its now 2010. you guys DO understand, that will never be another investigation into 9-11...right?

 

[carlitos]

You are a no planer, and people like you are disgusting to the core. YOU should be ignored for repeating such despicable claims.

And taking your advice, I will try to keep to it. My resolution is not to debate with 9/11 conspiracy theorists who won't make an affirmative claim to anything. I'll let you know how I do.

 

[BCR]

have major problems with this description too.

You have a 757 fly just a dozen or so feet over your head and have it explode within a hundred or so feet of you and see just how descriptive you are. After you go clean the poop out of your pants and thank God you are still alive, someone asks you what happened. Lets just see how accurate your description would be. You really have never dealt with accident/crime witnesses before have you?

 

[mudlark]

You seem to have a hard time understanding this. Even CIT realized they dug themselves into a hole they could not climb out of. All "independently verified testimonies" trump "official story reports." Let ex-JREFer/CIT groupie TheLoneBedouin explain:

We have two "independently verified testimonies" (Lagasse and England) that put the light poles North of Citgo. So the light poles were north of citgo. The plane rammed into the pentagon, just like the witnesses said. Let TheLoneBedouin explain further:
According to your heros, the south side light pole damage "is just hearsay," not a fact.

As I said you can´t twist this physical impossibility with words.
Lagasse believed the poles were there because he saw the plane fly that direction, THEN saw the lightpoles down AFTERWARDS. What else was he to think from his POV at the Citgo when asked about said poles?
Lloyd England knows that he was being cornered into becoming THE official path witness and changed his ridiculous story when CIT put the heat on.

The ´southside´ path MUST be hearsay seeing that NOBODY in nearly 1000 posts of discussion both here and the last time I was here, has mentioned just WHO these southside witnesses actually are!

NOC = no impact.
Even the most ardent detractors acknowledge this.
Give it up.

 

[alexi_drago]

As the fireball from the crash moved toward him, Probst
ran toward the South Parking Lot and recalls falling down twice.

I'm not surprised you have a major problem with that. According to you that would have him running into the fireball.

How does an explosion hurl heavier debris to the North yet lighter debris in the opposite direction?

I never said the explosion hurled the heavier debris to the north, I've already explained why that debris is there and why it's location supports the official flight path.

Please explain your directional blast.

 

[beachnut]

...
Again he could ONLY have been at the heliport area for ANY debris to have reached him.

So how far can debris be ejected in this 757 kinetic energy impact. Do you know how much kinetic energy was involved, or do you make up your own rules for physics and flying. Are you a pilot and an aircraft accident investigator? Do you have anything other than delusions?


does 2,480,000,000 joules ring a bell?

 

[Childlike Empress]

RADAR and all the witnesses verify this flight path if only you had been trained in aircraft accident investigation.
Morons invented the NoC.

You had ample time to explain to us why you deceived the audience about Paik's testimony. You didn't.

Why do you lie about 9/11,

Edited by Gaspode: 

Edited for Rule 12