Amanda Knox guilty - all because of a cartwheel

[Kestrel]

Here's your text message Kestrel:

"Ci vediamo più tardi. Buona serata"

See you later. Good evening.

Is the problem that "più tardi" could mean "afterwards" as well as "later"?

 

[scissorhands]

And, if you don't want to be physically touching a dead body. It's also handy if you want to emphasise a violent rape...'bra hacked off with knife' does just that.

True.
This particular attempt at emphasising the violent rape scenario seems to be Sollecitos undoing.

 

[shuttlt]

Assume the bra is still on the victim, a knife is slipped under the back strap and pulled back. If the knife was in the right spot, wouldn't this end up cutting off the clasp and a small amount of fabric?

I realize I may have misunderstood. I thought that the fabric on both sides of the clasp mechanism had been cut, hence two cuts. Are we just talking about one cut and then the clasp was, or became, detached?

 

[scissorhands]

Its one cut, on the hook side of the clasp.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Is the problem that "più tardi" could mean "afterwards" as well as "later"?

Yes, that's what it does mean in Italian. The 'buona serata' qualifies it as meaning 'tonight' (see you later tonight). If you sent that message to an Italian, they would think you meant to meet them later that night. Amanda didn't mean that, but the police weren't to know that.

 

[Kestrel]

I realize I may have misunderstood. I thought that the fabric on both sides of the clasp mechanism had been cut, hence two cuts. Are we just talking about one cut and then the clasp was, or became, detached?

Just one cut, leaving the bit of cloth and clasp shown in this video.



Note also how the evidence technicians are handling this piece.

 

[Fulcanelli]

This particular attempt at emphasising the violent rape scenario seems to be Sollecitos undoing.

It's both of their undoing. They overcooked it. They didn't realise that if they did that (along with the rest of the staging) the police would be able to tell it was not only done after Meredith's death, but some long time after it.

The fact is, if they hadn't have tried to stage the scene afterwards (posing Meredith to make it appear there'd been a rape, dumped the phones and broke the window to stage a break-in and robbery) they may well have got away with it. They over elaborated. And, the more complex a plan is, the more there is to go wrong. So instead, it did the exact opposite of what they intended and focussed suspicion on them, since the only people that would have had an interest in faking a scene to make it look like it had been carried out by someone who came from outside the cottage, would have been a resident that lived 'in' the cottage.

 

[Fiona]

But it doesn't become detached when you try it. It might sometimes but it didn't when I tried it. Look at the video. Look at the hooks

ETA: I really urge you to try it

 

[shuttlt]

Its one cut, on the hook side of the clasp.

Doh!

 

[piktor]

All I can say is what I said to kestrel: go and try it.The clasp was removed with about an inch of fabric IIRC

I have no idea why they did it:that it was removed some time after death is shown by the pattern of blood on her body.

Yes, the bra was on and removed after death. There is forensic crime scene evidence that corroborates the fact.

The victim died leaning on her right soulder. Blood pooled under her soulder and dried. More importantly, the bra's right shoulder strap was completely impregnated with blood. The left shoulder strap had little blood evidence.Yet, the bra was found removed from her, at the feet of the victim.

'They did it' to simulate a rape scene.

 

[shuttlt]

But it doesn't become detached when you try it. It might sometimes but it didn't when I tried it. Look at the video. Look at the hooks

When the body was moved perhaps?

By the way, thanks for the video Kestrel.

 

[scissorhands]

It's both of their undoing. They overcooked it. They didn't realise that if they did that (along with the rest of the staging) the police would be able to tell it was not only done after Meredith's death, but some long time after it.

The fact is, if they hadn't have tried to stage the scene afterwards (posing Meredith to make it appear there'd been a rape, dumped the phones and broke the window to stage a break-in and robbery) they may well have got away with it. They over elaborated. And, the more complex a plan is, the more there is to go wrong. So instead, it did the exact opposite of what they intended and focussed suspicion on them, since the only people that would have had an interest in faking a scene to make it look like it had been carried out by someone who came from outside the cottage, would have been a resident that lived 'in' the cottage.

I know.
They went overboard in their attempts at covering up while actually making their cover story more and more fragile , they just didnt know at what point to stop.

 

[shuttlt]

But it doesn't become detached when you try it. It might sometimes but it didn't when I tried it. Look at the video. Look at the hooks

ETA: I really urge you to try it

One non-destructive test later.... there is no way it would detach on its own unless the clasp had been damaged. I wonder if this would be possible if you pulled from the right angle with enough force?

I'd do a destructive test, but the owner of the bra might start asking questions again...

Unless she had a bra with a weird clasp. My experience is not sufficiently extensive to know.

 

[shuttlt]

What a way to spend New Years. Playing with bras to see if the clasps can fall open by themselves.

 

[scissorhands]

Doh!

You were suggesting two cuts.
The bra was cut on the hook side of the clasp with one cut.

 

[Kestrel]

When the body was moved perhaps?

By the way, thanks for the video Kestrel.

You are welcome.

 

[Fiona]

What a way to spend New Years. Playing with bras to see if the clasps can fall open by themselves.

But it is science, and that makes it ok

 

[Alt+F4]

One non-destructive test later.... there is no way it would detach on its own unless the clasp had been damaged. I wonder if this would be possible if you pulled from the right angle with enough force?

I'd do a destructive test, but the owner of the bra might start asking questions again...

Unless she had a bra with a weird clasp. My experience is not sufficiently extensive to know.

As a bra wearing of over thirty years I can tell you that the clasps can come loose and/or bend with just normal wear and tear. No excessive force is needed.

 

[Fiona]

That is not my experience at all, Alt+F4. But obviously it will happen sometimes. Did you happen to try the experiment?

 

[stilicho]

It's both of their undoing. They overcooked it. They didn't realise that if they did that (along with the rest of the staging) the police would be able to tell it was not only done after Meredith's death, but some long time after it.

Don't forget that they locked the door to Meredith's room, too. This may not be an overwhelming issue in their conviction but it squarely and immediately placed them both under suspicion.