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Is racism morally wrong?

Arcade22 said:
Well is it? [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/188094b300a2915bb7.gif[/qimg]

For simplicity's sake, let's define racism as 'valuing people differently based on their ethnicity or race'.

As a thought experiment, imagine that i am walking along a river. I stop for a second and hear two people screaming for help.
Seeing two people struggling for their lives, one of them a Swede and the other being an Arab, and noticing that i only have time to save one of them.

I instinctively rush to save the Swede, and in the process allowing the Arab to drown.

Would i be acting immorally in saving the Swede's life by the single fact that he is Swedish?

No i say, in fact i would argue that i acted an extremely moral way.
In the same way that i am willing to save my family from a burning house while letting yours burn to cinders,
i am willing to save a stranger from death while letting someone else perish simply because he was of the same ethnicity as my self.

Am i wrong? Is racism really immoral?
What do you think?
Click to expand...
The answer is, yes. And in this scenario my actions would be determined NOT by the persons race but how simply how convientent/dangerous it would be to save them. Litterally if a white person was three feet away from me on a raging river that led to a water fall, while someone black was 12 feet away, no doubt i'd save the white guy even though i'm black. Now if you'd save the guy that's 12 feet away while passing the closer guy then I'd say it's safe to say you're prejudices are clouding your judgement.
 
Arcade22 said:
Well is it? [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/188094b300a2915bb7.gif[/qimg]

For simplicity's sake, let's define racism as 'valuing people differently based on their ethnicity or race'.

As a thought experiment, imagine that i am walking along a river. I stop for a second and hear two people screaming for help.
Seeing two people struggling for their lives, one of them a Swede and the other being an Arab, and noticing that i only have time to save one of them.

I instinctively rush to save the Swede, and in the process allowing the Arab to drown.

Would i be acting immorally in saving the Swede's life by the single fact that he is Swedish?

No i say, in fact i would argue that i acted an extremely moral way.
In the same way that i am willing to save my family from a burning house while letting yours burn to cinders,
i am willing to save a stranger from death while letting someone else perish simply because he was of the same ethnicity as my self.

Am i wrong? Is racism really immoral?
What do you think?
Click to expand...

There are many variables here.

In principle, if you see these two men drowning and you decide to save one over the other (meaning, deliberately letting the other one drown to death), I think it's wrong.

That is not the same as deciding to save them both, and of course, having to pick one out of the water first (as you can only rescue one person at a time).

Also, that the decision to pick one first was not based on which of the two is closer, which of the two seems to be in less advantage, which of the two seems to be having a harder problem staying afloat (and among the reasons for that, his age, his physical health, etc)..... but racial discrimination.

That, for example, despite all these details, you decide to save one and not the other, and such decision is racially based, I would then consider it as plainly wrong.


(I also believe that in such scenario, the racial discrimination could be operating in the unconscious)
 
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The_Animus said:
Stupid/ignorant is not the same as immoral. It is stupid/ignorant to treat people differently without rational cause. But in what way does that make it immoral? Dropping a heavy object on my foot is stupid because I know thanks to gravity it will fall and hurt me. But is dropping a rock on my foot immoral?
Click to expand...
.
My dropping a rock on your foot is immoral... if intended to harm you, and not an accident.
 
The_Animus said:
Stupid/ignorant is not the same as immoral. It is stupid/ignorant to treat people differently without rational cause.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. That's why I used two sentences to respond to him.

But in what way does that make it immoral?
Click to expand...

If you are going to value people different based on ancestral genetics you will eventually come to a scenario where you will harm a "foreigner" who would have gotten away scot-free if he were "less ethnic".
 
KingMerv00 said:
Yes, I know. That's why I used two sentences to respond to him.



If you are going to value people different based on ancestral genetics you will eventually come to a scenario where you will harm a "foreigner" who would have gotten away scot-free if he were "less ethnic".
Click to expand...
.
And you could very well be put in the position of being the "foreigner", who "therefore hast a devil", just by changing your location from say, Samaria to Judea.
 
Arcade22 said:
Well is it?

long, convoluted hypothetical

Am i wrong? Is racism really immoral?
What do you think?
Click to expand...

What do I think? I think you presented one far-fetched hypothetical in hopes of garnering support for the racist ideology you've displayed in other threads.

I do not engage in far-fetched what-if's (unless they involve zombies.) What I can say is that racism is morally reprehensible. I can not fathom the depths of suckitude of being denied a job, a service or a domicile because of something I have no control over. Were you able to place yourself, hypothetically, on the receiving end of your own ******** I suspect you'd maybe see why you are so wrong.
 
Doctor Evil said:
Thats easy. The first one.

Why? Because I am a Manchester United fan.
Click to expand...
:D For 7 caps only? :eek:

Doctor Evil said:
Hmm, this begs the question, does a choice based on a football team makes me racist? Or should that be tribalist?
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Definitely not racist. The times that Ajax players actually came from Amsterdam and Feyenoord players from Rotterdam are long gone. And even then racism would be ill-fitted. Tribalist fits much better.

But on the serious side - I wonder about Arcade's choice. Something tells me they're not quite as much Swede in his opinion.
 
If you're wondering about anything Arcade has said, you're putting more thought into it than he has.
 
MysteryMammal said:
What do I think? I think you presented one far-fetched hypothetical in hopes of garnering support for the racist ideology you've displayed in other threads
Click to expand...

Indeed so. All that arcade22 has shows in that sometimes, in certain hypothetical situations, racists and non-racists might agree on the correct action.

Well, if you see an old Swedish woman being raped by an Arab, it is also morally correct to help her and not him. Another case of "agreement", I suppose.

The different is, of course, if Arcade22 sees an old Arab woman being raped by a Swede, he won't care.
 
Racism is morally wrong if most people agree that it is.
Abroad you may find it is actually legally obligatory.
That's because foreigners aren't like us.:rolleyes:
 
Arcade22 said:
I don't have to justify why i feel proud of being Swedish and the things the Swedish people have accomplished i just DO.
Click to expand...

I was just hoping that you would "Please explain how you came to that conclusion".

That you are unwilling to do so is fine, but its really no different from taking pride in the fact that the sky is blue.
 
Arcade22 said:
I value Swedes more than Norwegians, Arabs, the Chinese or any other people for that matter. I don't feel that Swedes are better than the Norwegians but i feel that they are more important or at least more important to me.
Click to expand...

"Please explain how you came to that conclusion".

The conclusion in question being that you should value Swedes more than Norwegians, Arabs, etc.
 
Arcade22 said:
I value Swedes more than Norwegians, Arabs, the Chinese or any other people for that matter. I don't feel that Swedes are better than the Norwegians but i feel that they are more important or at least more important to me.
Click to expand...

what if you saw two people hanging from a cliff, and they both wore a little hat stating that they were both Swedish citizens, but one was white and the other was black.

they are both fellow Swedes. who do you save?
 
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