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Is racism morally wrong?

So you've never thought about why you're proud of an accident of birth? I feel I'm getting an insight into the mind of a racist here.
 
Skeptic said:
In the theoretical case which you presented, no. Because we have more duties to our countrymen than we have to people in general.

You would similarly probably save someone of your extended family over a random Swede, and your daughter over your great-niece, etc.

But such issues are not what racism is about. It is not about having more duties to one's kins than to strangers. It is about stereotyping and hating strangers because they are different than you.

Not at all the same thing.
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Good points.
 
Sledge said:
So you've never thought about why you're proud of an accident of birth?
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Sure i have. I just haven't come up with a rational reason.

I also feel proud of my local hockey team when they play well, is this idiotic as well?
 
Undesired Walrus said:
I wasn't criticising you, just following up your post with a 'Right on! And what if this person was half-white, half-black? Would they split themselves in half?'.
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Thanks for clarifying. As I said, I just couldn't get what you meant.

And I agree... What if it's an dark-skinned swede and a white skinned arab?

I come from the south of Portugal. I'm white as a ghost, and I am usually mistaken with a local here in Germany. Unless I'm tanned, in which case some of my southern features make me look like a southern european or even a north african.

I guess it would depend in which season I'm drowning :)
 
Arcade22 said:
Seeing two people struggling for their lives, one of them a Swede and the other being an Arab, and noticing that i only have time to save one of them.

I instinctively rush to save the Swede, and in the process allowing the Arab to drown.
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Is the Swede any old Swede or could I possibly recognize him as Arcade22? In that case I guess I would not hesitate to save the Arab, but neither instinct nor nationality nor ethnicity has anything to do with it.

The stupidity of these pseudo-Darwinian racist riddles becomes obvious if you ask people a different question: You see a Swede and your own adorable little puppy struggling for their lives: Who would you save? A lot of people would hate to have to make this choice and let their puppies die, even though dogs aren't even human!
 
Undesired Walrus said:
What??
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Yes, we do. For example, we have the duty to fight to defend our country in war. We don't have a similar duty to defend other countries in most (though not all) circumstances. We have a duty to be good citizens and be involved in our country's politics, caring for the country's welfare to a degree we do not have a duty to care for other countries. And so on.

The Talmud says it best: aniyey ircha kodmim -- the poor of your own town come first. This is not meant to forbid helping strangers. It is meant to give preference to one's own if forced to choose. "Preference", of course, is not meant as an absolute rule: it isn't that one must not give a dime to charity in other places as long as there are poor in one's hometown. It is meant to prevent ignoring one's people in favor of strangers.
 
Skeptic said:
Yes, we do. For example, we have the duty to fight to defend our country in war. We don't have a similar duty to defend other countries in most (though not all) circumstances. We have a duty to be good citizens and be involved in our country's politics, caring for the country's welfare to a degree we do not have a duty to care for other countries. And so on.

The Talmud says it best: aniyey ircha kodmim -- the poor of your own town come first. This is not meant to forbid helping strangers. It is meant to give preference to one's own if forced to choose. "Preference", of course, is not meant as an absolute rule: it isn't that one must not give a dime to charity in other places as long as there are poor in one's hometown. It is meant to prevent ignoring one's people in favor of strangers.
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I bet you can't tell me with a straight face that you'd save David Duke over some random Belgian.
 
Skeptic said:
Yes, we do. For example, we have the duty to fight to defend our country in war.
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No, we don't. I would fight a war to defend my family, and so be on the side of the country my family lived on. In this particular moment that might mean one of three countries.

I have no allegiance to a geographical area...

We have a duty to be good citizens and be involved in our country's politics, caring for the country's welfare to a degree we do not have a duty to care for other countries. And so on.
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That duty is owed to any country you live in, and not necessarily your own.

The Talmud says it best: aniyey ircha kodmim -- the poor of your own town come first.
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Stupid quote... the poor of my town might be idiotic and lazy alcoholics, while the ones in the next town will really use charity and build up a better life for themselves.

It all comes down to individuals.
 
Skeptic said:
Yes, we do. For example, we have the duty to fight to defend our country in war.
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Says who? Even if our country is the USSR? Fascist Japan?

The Talmud says it best: aniyey ircha kodmim -- the poor of your own town come first. This is not meant to forbid helping strangers. It is meant to give preference to one's own if forced to choose. "Preference", of course, is not meant as an absolute rule: it isn't that one must not give a dime to charity in other places as long as there are poor in one's hometown. It is meant to prevent ignoring one's people in favor of strangers.
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Why should we hold the Talmud up as an example of what we should do?
 
Skeptic said:
Yes, we do. For example, we have the duty to fight to defend our country in war. We don't have a similar duty to defend other countries in most (though not all) circumstances. We have a duty to be good citizens and be involved in our country's politics, caring for the country's welfare to a degree we do not have a duty to care for other countries. And so on.

The Talmud says it best: aniyey ircha kodmim -- the poor of your own town come first. This is not meant to forbid helping strangers. It is meant to give preference to one's own if forced to choose. "Preference", of course, is not meant as an absolute rule: it isn't that one must not give a dime to charity in other places as long as there are poor in one's hometown. It is meant to prevent ignoring one's people in favor of strangers.
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However this is a concept distinct from racism in many ways. It's simple fact that when allocating limited resources, it behooves communities to look to themselves first.

It's less obvious that those communities are racially homogeneous. I know Arcade is unfamiliar with America, but the Arab might be the guy down the street, while the Swede could be from... Sweden (it happens sometimes, I hear).

Associating community spirit with racial homogenity is just wrong. Even traditionally 'black' community organizations have recognized this for the most part, branching out to helping everyone in the disadvantaged communities they're after, while schools are switching from race-based support to demographic-based support (something you've generally strongly supported in the past, making your sudden support for the race-based argument a tad disingenuous).
 
Arcade22 said:
Sure i have. I just haven't come up with a rational reason.

I also feel proud of my local hockey team when they play well, is this idiotic as well?
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Kinda.
You have no input other than fandom towards their efforts.
It's a vicarious thrill.
Their doing well does nothing towards your doing anything well on your own.
 
Undesired Walrus said:
Says who? Even if our country is the USSR? Fascist Japan?
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The citizens of those countries will defend them.
QED
.
Why should we hold the Talmud up as an example of what we should do?
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.
It's another collection of aphorisms that tell us what we -should-/might- do when feeling altruistic.
The world is full of these.
If Mums and Daddums don't teach the children well, there's those books.
And if those fail, there's the legal system. :)
 
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