Naturopath Education vs Med School

[T.A.M.]

oh, to be able to charge for phone advice, email advice, and other such things...

TAM

 

[Hamradioguy]

Eos, my hat is off to you. I got into a set-to on a friends facebook page recently. He had a good link and some nice comments about the health care debate here in the U.S. Didn't take long for someone to start posting about the evils of "big pharma" and "why can't alternative medicine get more respect?" She sure didn't like my put down of homeopathy, telling me that I obviously didn't understand anything about medicine and that she knew many doctors who were successfully using homeopathy to treat all sorts of things.

Geeze, this so much reminds me of that game, "Wack-A-Mole". You just can't argue with stupid, and there sure seems to be a lot of it around.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

ok, I have a few comments on it, as it really annoys me. I am referring to the Canadian System, as it is what I am part of. In Canada, we are paid by our provincial governments through a medicare plan. SO people get health care via their taxes which pay for the plan.

1. I do not get paid (A) for the drugs I prescribe, or (B) to prescribe you a particular type fo drug or therapy.
2. If I refer you to a specialist, or for Physiotherapy, or any other therapy etc.. I do not get paid anything for it.
3. If I send you for an investigation (xr, ct, mri, u/s) I do not get paid for doing so.
4. If you call in on the phone and ask me to call in a refill of your prescriptions, I do not get paid for it.
5. The medicines and therapies I prescribe are scientifically proven to work

THE ONLY TIME I GET PAID IS FOR THE VISIT YOU MAKE TO MY OFFICE. The GOVT sets the rate.

compare that to the naturopaths etc...

1. They charge you for the visit. They set the rate.
2. They charge you for the therapy. They set the rate.
3. They charge you for the medicine. They set the rate.
4. They're therapies, with RARE exception, have no scientific evidence that they work.

TAM

Alternative health exists to make money just as much as does "Big Pharma", and, for that matter, most industries in the world, even humanitarian ones. This simple fact for some reason seems to elude the ones who charge that Big Pharma makes too much money (yeah, because saving lives on a daily basis, increasing lifespans, and reducing suffering isn't something one deserves to be paid handsomely for).

 

[T.A.M.]

Alternative health exists to make money just as much as does "Big Pharma", and, for that matter, most industries in the world, even humanitarian ones. This simple fact for some reason seems to elude the ones who charge that Big Pharma makes too much money (yeah, because saving lives on a daily basis, increasing lifespans, and reducing suffering isn't something one deserves to be paid handsomely for).

ahh so you, unlike WW and others, are NOT blind to the hypocrisy of the Alt med INDUSTRY.

TAM

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

oh, to be able to charge for phone advice, email advice, and other such things...

TAM

We should take lessons from lawyers.

 

[T.A.M.]

We should take lessons from lawyers.

I have frequently said to patients and friends, if money were my only objective, my only desire, I DEFINITELY chose the wrong profession. I make a good living, but I am not wealthy. I make $200K per year, but $54K goes out the door for overhead, and another $40-$60K in taxes every year. $6K in association fees, 3K in malpractice insurance, $5K in disability and life insurance. $15K in food (family of 4 with 3 dogs), $15K on a mortgage, $12K to pay for my 2 vehicles. That leaves some free change, yes, but not a lot.

I say all this only because there is this perception that all doctors live the wealthy life. Some do, but many do not. I know way more wealthy lawyers then I do wealthy doctors. You can make a large sum of money without being "wealthy". However, I digress.

TAM

 

[Rasmus]

I have frequently said to patients and friends, if money were my only objective, my only desire, I DEFINITELY chose the wrong profession. I make a good living, but I am not wealthy. I make $200K per year, but $54K goes out the door for overhead, and another $40-$60K in taxes every year. $6K in association fees, 3K in malpractice insurance, $5K in disability and life insurance. $15K in food (family of 4 with 3 dogs), $15K on a mortgage, $12K to pay for my 2 vehicles. That leaves some free change, yes, but not a lot.

I say all this only because there is this perception that all doctors live the wealthy life. Some do, but many do not. I know way more wealthy lawyers then I do wealthy doctors. You can make a large sum of money without being "wealthy". However, I digress.

TAM

That you chose to spend your wealth on a large family is your choice, though. The same goes on your home and at least one of the two vehicles.

I'd be glad if I made as much as you do after taxes, business expenses and insurance.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Back on track. Naturopaths are taught vaccines are teh ebils because they don't end up learning how the immune system actually works, as demonstrated by the babbling ND supporter earlier.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/opinions/outlook/worst-ideas/vaccines-and-autism.html

I have to celebrate every time a mainstream newspaper has an opinion piece that is not total woo woo garbage when it comes to vaccines, so here is one:

They were too worried about spooking anti-vaccine activists, many of whom claim adjuvants contribute to autism. This almost certainly isn't true: Adjuvants have been widely used for years, with no reputable study suggesting a link between them and autism. But federal officials feared people would avoid the H1N1 vaccine if it included adjuvants. As Anne Schuchat of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in congressional testimony last month, "The public's confidence in our vaccine system and in vaccines in this country [is] very, very fragile."

Still, it's depressing that antiscience fraccers are affecting our health care.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Eos, my hat is off to you. I got into a set-to on a friends facebook page recently. He had a good link and some nice comments about the health care debate here in the U.S. Didn't take long for someone to start posting about the evils of "big pharma" and "why can't alternative medicine get more respect?" She sure didn't like my put down of homeopathy, telling me that I obviously didn't understand anything about medicine and that she knew many doctors who were successfully using homeopathy to treat all sorts of things.

Geeze, this so much reminds me of that game, "Wack-A-Mole". You just can't argue with stupid, and there sure seems to be a lot of it around.

Thank you, it's fun isn't it... ugh. They have the easier job of quoting and repeating stupid with no substantial information. It's harder explaining how the body actually works, or explaining the placebo effect, etc.

 

[T.A.M.]

That you chose to spend your wealth on a large family is your choice, though. The same goes on your home and at least one of the two vehicles.

I'd be glad if I made as much as you do after taxes, business expenses and insurance.

I did not say I was not well off. My family and I want for nothing, and for that I am grateful, but after all the expenditures to have those things (a middle class family life by most standards) there is not that much left. I was trying to shed this false perception that all MDs are "WEALTHY". Not all of us are, though few if any of us struggle financially once we have our loans paid off.

PS. I have the gentleman's family, My wife, myself, 2 children (boy and girl) and 2 dogs. I would not call that LARGE.

TAM

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That you chose to spend your wealth on a large family is your choice, though. The same goes on your home and at least one of the two vehicles.

I'd be glad if I made as much as you do after taxes, business expenses and insurance.

I make a decent living for a single mom. I don't make 3 figures. I chose to take more time off instead. My house and car are paid for and I have one child, an extremely minimal contribution from his dad, 2 dogs and a college fund for my son but no retirement saved for me except the home equity. My son is in his second year of college.

I sell my knowledge and experience for a living and I am proud of that fact. If you don't have knowledge and experience to sell, I can only say, you chose your path, or you still have time to.

So if you are whining that you don't make as much as someone with an education and experience, I suggest you look in the mirror before you feel too sorry for yourself.

 

[Chris Haynes]

I make a decent living for a single mom. I don't make 3 figures. ....

Wait, what? How do you live on less than $1000 per year?

 

[Prometheus]

Wait, what? How do you live on less than $1000 per year?

That would be 4 figures.

 

[Chris Haynes]

That would be 4 figures.

And anything less than that would be 3 figures (in whole dollars).

 

[Prometheus]

And anything less than that would be 3 figures (in whole dollars).

But this is Naturopathy; less is more.

 

[Morrigan]

So if you are whining that you don't make as much as someone with an education and experience, I suggest you look in the mirror before you feel too sorry for yourself.

I don't think he was whining about anything. Don't be so presumptuous.

 

[Rasmus]

So if you are whining that you don't make as much as someone with an education and experience, I suggest you look in the mirror before you feel too sorry for yourself.

I am not whining and I am sorry if I came across that way. And I am happy for TAM to make as much as he does; I guess we just have different views of what "wealthy" means. (I'd blame Lisa, but seeing how English is my second language I might not be entirely blameless here myself.)

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I have frequently said to patients and friends, if money were my only objective, my only desire, I DEFINITELY chose the wrong profession. I make a good living, but I am not wealthy. I make $200K per year, but $54K goes out the door for overhead, and another $40-$60K in taxes every year. $6K in association fees, 3K in malpractice insurance, $5K in disability and life insurance. $15K in food (family of 4 with 3 dogs), $15K on a mortgage, $12K to pay for my 2 vehicles. That leaves some free change, yes, but not a lot.

I say all this only because there is this perception that all doctors live the wealthy life. Some do, but many do not. I know way more wealthy lawyers then I do wealthy doctors. You can make a large sum of money without being "wealthy". However, I digress.

TAM

I did not say I was not well off. My family and I want for nothing, and for that I am grateful, but after all the expenditures to have those things (a middle class family life by most standards) there is not that much left. I was trying to shed this false perception that all MDs are "WEALTHY". Not all of us are, though few if any of us struggle financially once we have our loans paid off.

PS. I have the gentleman's family, My wife, myself, 2 children (boy and girl) and 2 dogs. I would not call that LARGE.

TAM

You must be hard up, you've eaten one of your dogs for lunch.

 

[T.A.M.]

lol...the first was an error...last I checked, dog count was still at 2.

Doh!

I gues Rasmus is right, ideas of "wealthy" can vary. My idea of wealthy is someone who owns a large house, has 2-3 expensive cars (I have a honda and a chevy), goes on frequent vacation (with the money to do so). I am not in that category...though I could be if I wanted to work 100h per week.

TAM

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Wait, what? How do you live on less than $1000 per year?

Last I checked, "3 figures" did mean > $99,000/US.