Cayce’s status as a self-proclaimed psychic in question

[Rodney]

so you believe in Atlantis then ?

Non sequitur, but it's far from impossible.

 

[Marduk]

Non sequitur, but it's far from impossible.

Its totally impossible actually, additionally everything that Cayce said about it runs against what is known about real history and is easily dismissed. The A.R.E. are still producing nonsense about it which runs against real history and they hire pseudo historians to fill in their blanks. Atlantis no matter which pseudo approach to it you are reading is totally impossible and always has been.

 

[Rodney]

Atlantis no matter which pseudo approach to it you are reading is totally impossible and always has been.

Evidence?

 

[Marduk]

Evidence?

You're kidding right ?
you want me to prove a negative
LOGICAL FALLACY

 

[Rodney]

You're kidding right ?
you want me to prove a negative
LOGICAL FALLACY

You're the one who is claiming that Atlantis is "totally impossible." But apparently, you have no more evidence for that claim than you do for your claim that Cayce was "passing himself of as a doctor."

 

[ExMinister]

In post#12, you stated: "One of the things that has made me question Cayce's sincerity in the past was when his trance source said it would be OK for him to have an affair with his secretary, Gladys. That made me think he had more conscious awareness of what he was saying than he was letting on."

So, why, if Cayce was influencing his trance source to say that an affair would be okay, did he not follow through on it?

Hi Rodney. To be perfectly honest, there is no way for us to know whether he tried to follow through or not. He may have tried to convince her and failed, or maybe they made a mutual decision, as the book states, to refrain from such a relationship.

In fact, had the spiritual Source not been a part of it, I wouldn't have judged him too harshly for an affair or a strong attraction to his secretary, something that's basically human, though I would have thought more highly of him for refraining. But what made me question his sincerity was the trance advice itself.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities. One is that Cayce's trance Source actually existed and actually advocated Cayce having a physical affair with his secretary. Soul mate or not, advocating cheating on his wife with his secretary would make me question the high spiritual nature of this Source.

Another possibility is that Cayce influenced the Source to say this. I think that's really lousy, the idea of someone claiming spiritual abilities and using them to manipulate another person that way, so whether or not he was successful at convincing her wouldn't be the point. The point, to me, would be the fact that he tried.

That's what made me question his sincerity. What's more likely - that a highly spiritual Source would advocate adultery, or that Cayce was trying to manipulate his secretary into having a physical relationship with him?

And if he was that conscious during this particular trance, how do we know he didn't also, even occasionally, remain conscious for others?

 

[Marduk]

You're the one who is claiming that Atlantis is "totally impossible." But apparently, you have no more evidence for that claim than you do for your claim that Cayce was "passing himself of as a doctor."

youre really woo aren't you

ok couple of facts for you

1. Cayce was convicted of passing himself of as a doctor in a court of law, thats pretty definitive proof right there and not subject to the spin that you are trying to put on it.

2. Atlantis has no supporting evidence at all. It was said to have existed around 10,500bce and yet, the population for it given by Plato was larger than the human population of the earth at the time and apparently subsisted before the discovery of agriculture, Plato claims that Atlantis was at war with Greece, a civilisation that wouldn't exist for another 9000 years at least. Plato claims that Atlantean survivors founded the classical civilisations of the ancient world and yet, they have all been proven to be local cultures that founded them, Plato claims that the Atlanteans taught their system of writing and mathematics to those cultures yet those cultures all have completely different forms of writing and math. Plato states that the Atlanteans were a bronze age culture around 7000 years before the discovery of mettalurgy. Plato claims that the survivors of Atlantis escaped and passed on their bloodline yet no genetic evidence of any of that exists at all. Plato states at the start of the dialogue that what follows is fiction, but I guess you and Cayce didn't read that bit. I could go on listing examples of the fallacies of the claims made by Plato all day but I'd like to point out that as Plato is the first person to ever write about Atlantis he is the only credible source on the subject.


Have you even read Timaeus and Critias Rodney ?
doesn't seem to me that you are at all familiar with it.

now thats my starting evidence that is at once, impossible to get around as its stated factually by Plato, thats Plato who as a philosopher is well known for telling stories to make moral points. The point about Atlantis is that it was destoyed by the Gods because the Atlanteans didn't honour them. If you missed that its no wonder youre reading cayce and thinking "WOW, its all true"

now if you'd really like me to publically maul you on a subject that I have been familiar with for over 20 years please do carry on telling me how you think civilisations came about according to Cayce and I'll go fetch some popcorn

would you now like to address all my points one by one and then present your evidence that Atlantis was a reality or would you prefer to pass on this one ?


also I think its fair to ask if you are or ever have been a member of the A.R.E. ?

 

[Rodney]

Hi Rodney. To be perfectly honest, there is no way for us to know whether he tried to follow through or not. He may have tried to convince her and failed, or maybe they made a mutual decision, as the book states, to refrain from such a relationship.

In fact, had the spiritual Source not been a part of it, I wouldn't have judged him too harshly for an affair or a strong attraction to his secretary, something that's basically human, though I would have thought more highly of him for refraining. But what made me question his sincerity was the trance advice itself.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities. One is that Cayce's trance Source actually existed and actually advocated Cayce having a physical affair with his secretary. Soul mate or not, advocating cheating on his wife with his secretary would make me question the high spiritual nature of this Source.

Another possibility is that Cayce influenced the Source to say this. I think that's really lousy, the idea of someone claiming spiritual abilities and using them to manipulate another person that way, so whether or not he was successful at convincing her wouldn't be the point. The point, to me, would be the fact that he tried.

That's what made me question his sincerity. What's more likely - that a highly spiritual Source would advocate adultery, or that Cayce was trying to manipulate his secretary into having a physical relationship with him?

And if he was that conscious during this particular trance, how do we know he didn't also, even occasionally, remain conscious for others?

First, it's very hard to believe that Cayce would not have been able to convince Gladys that an affair would be a good thing, given that the Source -- whom Gladys clearly believed in -- was not opposed, and the fact that Gladys didn't date anyone until after Cayce died. Second, Kirkpatrick doesn't say that the Source advocated an affair, only that it "would not be inappropriate if they so desired." Third, I think it says something about the character of both Cayce and Gladys that no affair took place despite the fact that it seemed to be a clear option.

 

[Marduk]

I think it says something about the character of both Cayce and Gladys that no affair took place despite the fact that it seemed to be a clear option.

Yes. it says that he didn't want his wife to publically embaress him by walking out as its well known that up til 1923 Cayce had several extra marrital affairs and they ended when he fell out with his wife. Right after this he hires Gladys. Did he learn anything or did he just get discreet or find someone like Gladys that was?

 

[Rodney]

youre really woo aren't you

ok couple of facts for you

1. Cayce was convicted of passing himself of as a doctor in a court of law, thats pretty definitive proof right there and not subject to the spin that you are trying to put on it.

Pleading guilty in a plea bargain is not the same as claiming to be a doctor. If you knew more about Cayce, you would know that he worked with many doctors and never pretended to have any medical training.

2. Atlantis has no supporting evidence at all. It was said to have existed around 10,500bce and yet, the population for it given by Plato was larger than the human population of the earth at the time and apparently subsisted before the discovery of agriculture, Plato claims that Atlantis was at war with Greece, a civilisation that wouldn't exist for another 9000 years at least. Plato claims that Atlantean survivors founded the classical civilisations of the ancient world and yet, they have all been proven to be local cultures that founded them, Plato claims that the Atlanteans taught their system of writing and mathematics to those cultures yet those cultures all have completely different forms of writing and math. Plato states that the Atlanteans were a bronze age culture around 7000 years before the discovery of mettalurgy. Plato claims that the survivors of Atlantis escaped and passed on their bloodline yet no genetic evidence of any of that exists at all. Plato states at the start of the dialogue that what follows is fiction, but I guess you and Cayce didn't read that bit. I could go on listing examples of the fallacies of the claims made by Plato all day but I'd like to point out that as Plato is the first person to ever write about Atlantis he is the only credible source on the subject.


Have you even read Timaeus and Critias Rodney ?
doesn't seem to me that you are at all familiar with it.

now thats my starting evidence that is at once, impossible to get around as its stated factually by Plato, thats Plato who as a philosopher is well known for telling stories to make moral points. The point about Atlantis is that it was destoyed by the Gods because the Atlanteans didn't honour them. If you missed that its no wonder youre reading cayce and thinking "WOW, its all true"

now if you'd really like me to publically maul you on a subject that I have been familiar with for over 20 years please do carry on telling me how you think civilisations came about according to Cayce and I'll go fetch some popcorn

would you now like to address all my points one by one and then present your evidence that Atlantis was a reality or would you prefer to pass on this one ?

I'm simply saying that your contention that Atlantis was an "impossibility" is incorrect. But feel free to present whatever evidence you have against either Atlantis or Cayce.

also I think its fair to ask if you are or ever have been a member of the A.R.E. ?

Absolutely, a card-carrying member in good standing.

 

[Marduk]

Pleading guilty in a plea bargain is not the same as claiming to be a doctor. If you knew more about Cayce, you would know that he worked with many doctors and never pretended to have any medical training.

ok typical flim flam response, Cayce was convicted of practicing medicine without a license, plea bargain or not this means he was convicted and had a criminal record. Deal with it

I'm simply saying that your contention that Atlantis was an "impossibility" is incorrect. But feel free to present whatever evidence you have against either Atlantis or Cayce.

I did in my previous post. That you failed to address any of my points on the impossibility of Atlantis and are pretending that they don't exist speaks volumes, what, can't get access to the Hutton commentaries at the moment ?

Absolutely, a card-carrying member in good standing.

very very very gullible, you've been had and you don't even know it

 

[ExMinister]

First, it's very hard to believe that Cayce would not have been able to convince Gladys that an affair would be a good thing, given that the Source -- whom Gladys clearly believed in -- was not opposed, and the fact that Gladys didn't date anyone until after Cayce died. Second, Kirkpatrick doesn't say that the Source advocated an affair, only that it "would not be inappropriate if they so desired." Third, I think it says something about the character of both Cayce and Gladys that no affair took place despite the fact that it seemed to be a clear option.

But we have no way of knowing why no affair took place. All we can do really is speculate. You're speculating that it didn't take place because of their character, if I understand you right, and that's certainly a possibility. On the other hand, if Cayce made up the whole thing in order to seduce his secretary, then it doesn't look so good for his character, if you look at it that way.

As for Gladys, who knows - she may have been smart enough to know that having an affair with Cayce could spell the end of things if something went wrong - if Gertrude was unhappy about the situation, for example. But how can we know?

Still, the Source does advocate an affair. It says that it "would not be inappropriate if they so desired." So as you said yourself, the Source made this seem a clear option. It's like if I told my kids that stealing a bicycle "would not be inappropriate if they so desired," if I let them know this was an option and I didn't disapprove of it, wouldn't they likely interpret that as me advocating the behavior? If they chose not to steal a bike, it wouldn't be because of what I said then; it would be because they had their own sense of morality.

 

[Marduk]

very interesting article about Cayce on skeptic.com
http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html
he's not looking too good

 

[ExMinister]

Yes. it says that he didn't want his wife to publically embaress him by walking out as its well known that up til 1923 Cayce had several extra marrital affairs and they ended when he fell out with his wife. Right after this he hires Gladys. Did he learn anything or did he just get discreet or find someone like Gladys that was?

Ok, I've read a lot on Cayce in the past 20 years and I haven't heard of these affairs. Do you have sources for this, by any chance?

 

[Marduk]

Ok, I've read a lot on Cayce in the past 20 years and I haven't heard of these affairs. Do you have sources for this, by any chance?

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/edgar-cayce/timeline.html


I'd also like to submit this expert testimony on the accuracy of Edgar Cayces historical predictions

his best work was in healing people and not in archaeological predictions

there goes your Atlantis claims Rodney, but I'm still waiting for you to acknolwedge and answer my earlier factual points which you have so far been unable to address
problem ?
lol


when you do that I will be addressing the problems of accepting heavily biased anecdotal evidence as proof of anything. This again is a logical fallacy that you seem woefully unaware of. Btw when you paid your money to join the A.R.E. did they send you the poster or the wall calendar (free of charge) ?

Then after that we can move onto the literature currently being put about by the A.R.E. in a vain attempt to prove that Atlantis existed and the hilariously wrong claims they are making about MTDNA Haplogroup X and I'll show you all the holes in it and the consistent lies throughout if you like and how a psychologist seems to think hes somehow qualified to make expert calls on marine geology, but only when he has the backing of a known pseudo history author who seems to think hes qualified to talk about the design of ancient harbours. That bits a hoot. See you really should have seen who you were allying yourself with before you paid your money for that free calendar eh


Its not about the truth my friend, its about money, isn't that always the case.

 

[ExMinister]

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/edgar-cayce/timeline.html

Thanks. I think that's a reference to Fay Autry, his stenographer in Texas according to Kirkpatrick, for 3 years. Yeah, who knows, that might have been an affair. I wouldn't state it as fact, unless you know of someplace where they have some concrete evidence, but it seems quite possible considering the circumstances, the rift between Cayce and his wife at that time, and even the resentment and anger Hugh Lynn claimed to feel toward his father over how he treated his mother during those years. I never understood that; maybe it had to do with affairs. Interesting.

 

[Questioninggeller]

Posts and comments on this topic are welcome. Also, if I was missing anything important from this article, please let me know.

I read one of his books many years ago (I don't remember the name), but he clearly claimed to do psychic things. Whether or not he called himself psychic it doesn't matter if his actions are those of a psychic.

 

[Marduk]

I read one of his books many years ago (I don't remember the name), but he clearly claimed to do psychic things. Whether or not he called himself psychic it doesn't matter if his actions are those of a psychic.

Cayce, his wife Gertrude and secretary Gladys Davis were arrested on charges of fortune-telling during a visit to New York in 1931, the charges were dismissed, but if he wasn't claiming to be a psychic he wouldn't have got any customers and so wouldnt have been arrested

its an open and shut case

§ 165.35 Fortune telling.
A person is guilty of fortune telling when, for a fee or compensation
which he directly or indirectly solicits or receives, he claims or
pretends to tell fortunes, or holds himself out as being able, by
claimed or pretended use of occult powers, to answer questions or give
advice on personal matters or to exorcise, influence or affect evil
spirits or curses; except that this section does not apply to a person
who engages in the aforedescribed conduct as part of a show or
exhibition solely for the purpose of entertainment or amusement.
Fortune telling is a class B misdemeanor.

 

[tsig]

First, it's very hard to believe that Cayce would not have been able to convince Gladys that an affair would be a good thing, given that the Source -- whom Gladys clearly believed in -- was not opposed, and the fact that Gladys didn't date anyone until after Cayce died. Second, Kirkpatrick doesn't say that the Source advocated an affair, only that it "would not be inappropriate if they so desired." Third, I think it says something about the character of both Cayce and Gladys that no affair took place despite the fact that it seemed to be a clear option.

Why was the source concerned with Cayce's with sexual situation?

 

[tsig]

ok typical flim flam response, Cayce was convicted of practicing medicine without a license, plea bargain or not this means he was convicted and had a criminal record. Deal with it



I did in my previous post. That you failed to address any of my points on the impossibility of Atlantis and are pretending that they don't exist speaks volumes, what, can't get access to the Hutton commentaries at the moment ?

very very very gullible, you've been had and you don't even know it

And he has to buy his own vasoline to make it easier.