8 out of 8 at Citgo station

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Steve Anderson

Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Deb Anlauf

Anlauf was watching TV coverage of the Trade Center burning shortly before 9:30 a.m. when she decided to return to her 14th-floor room from another part of the hotel. Once in her room, she heard a "loud roar" and looked out the window to see what was going on. "Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window," Anlauf said during a telephone interview from her hotel room this morning. "You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook."
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Gary Bauer

“I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn’t moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. My office called to tell me about the first plane in New York, the reaction was ‘horrible accident.’ And then they called about the second plane, and clearly that meant something much worse was going on. It was only then that I really noticed where I was in that traffic jam. I was going past the Pentagon, really inching a yard or so every couple of minutes. I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn’t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment.
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

really?
Sean Boger

"I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building. It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building."

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

really?

Donald R. Bouchoux

"At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car."
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

James R. Cissell

''Out of my peripheral vision, I saw this plane coming in and it was low - and getting lower. ''If you couldn't touch it from standing on the highway, you could by standing on your car.'' ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. ''I remember thinking, 'The World Trade Center was just the beginning, there's going to be more.' '' He remembers the helipad the plane flew over before smacking into the Pentagon was close enough to him that ''I could have thrown a baseball at it and hit it.'' While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.''
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Daryl Donley

"It just was amazingly precise," Daryl Donley, another commuter, said of the plane's impact. "It completely disappeared into the Pentagon."
"I could see the windows. I saw the entire plane and then saw it fly right into the Pentagon."
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Bobby Eberle

We set out in the car and immediately turned on the news radio to follow what was happening in New York City. After fifteen minutes into our trip, a new report came over the radio stating that a second aircraft (another passenger airliner) had struck the World Trade Center. ... As we slowly crept along in traffic at about 9:30 am, we rounded a bend and had the Pentagon in our sites -- right in front of us. ... Riding in a convertable with the top down, I then heard a tremendously loud noise from behind me and to my left. I looked back and saw a jet airliner flying very low and very fast. It's amazing what can run through your mind in just a matter of seconds. As a pilot, I can't help but look at an airplane and think about airplane topics. What I saw sent a shiver down my spine as I realized something was not right. The aircraft was so very low -- as an aircraft would be on its final approach to an airport. However, if you have watched any aircraft come in for a landing, even though the aircraft is descending, it is angled up slightly. This aircraft was angled downward. In addition, landing gear would also be visible on a aircraft so low and so near landing. This aircraft had its landing gear retracted. Finally, an aircraft on final approach is traveling rather slowly. This aircraft sped by very loudly an very quickly. All of this flashed in my mind as the aircraft passed from behind my left shoulder to in front of me. It was then that the other events of the morning crystallized in the realization that tragedy was about to occur. With all of these images spinning in my head, the only words that came out of my mouth were "Oh no!" With that, the airliner crashed into the Pentagon and exploded.
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

really?

Albert Hemphill

"Having just witnessed the CNN coverage of New York" "with a head full of the horror in New York, I walked in the office and stood peering out of the window looking at the Pentagon. ... As I stood there, I instinctively ducked at the extremely loud roar and whine of a jet engine spooling up. Immediately, the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the Westside of the Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it had been following Columbia Pike - an Arlington road leading to Pentagon. The aircraft was moving fast, at what I could only be estimate as between 250 to 300 knots. All in all, I probably only had the aircraft in my field of view for approximately 3 seconds. The aircraft was at a sharp downward angle of attack, on a direct course for the Pentagon. It was "clean", in as much as, there were no flaps applied and no apparent landing gear deployed. He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just "jinked" to avoid something. As he crossed Route 110 he appeared to level his wings, making a slight right wing slow adjustment as he impacted low on the Westside of the building to the right of the helo, tower and fire vehicle around corridor 5. What instantly followed was a large yellow fireball accompanied by an extremely bass sounding, deep thunderous boom. The yellow fireball rose quickly as black smoke engulfed the entire Westside of the Pentagon, obscuring the whole of the heliport. I could feel the concussion and felt the shockwave of the blast impact the window of the Annex, knocking me against the desk.
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Michael James

"The plane came over the top of us and brushed the trees. Then it looked like it hit the helicopter pad and skipped up and went right into the first and second floors."
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Aydan Kizildrgli

Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. "There was a big boom," he said. "Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled ‘Did you see that?' Nobody could believe it."
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Lincoln Leibner

After the second plane hit the World Trade Center, Major Lincoln Leibner jumped in his pickup truck and raced to the Pentagon. As he ran to an entrance, he heard jet engines and turned in time to see the American Airlines plane diving toward the building. "I was close enough that I could see through the windows of the airplane, and watch as it as it hit," he said. "There was no doubt in my mind what I was watching. Not for a second. It was accelerating," he said. "It was wheels up, flaps up, engines full throttle. "
Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Stephen McGraw

"The traffic was very slow moving, and at one point just about at a standstill." "I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars." McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. "The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. I saw it crash into the building," he said. "My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression," he said. "I hadn't heard about the World Trade Center at that point, and so I was thinking this was an accident. I figured it was just an accident. There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows."

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

James Mosley

"The building starting shaking, and I looked over and saw this big silver plane run into the side of the Pentagon. It almost knocked me off."

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Mary Ann Owens

Up to that moment I had only experienced shock by the news coming from New York City and frustration with the worse-than-normal traffic snarl ... but it wasn't until I heard the demon screaming of that engine that I expected to die. Between the Pentagon's helicopter pad, which sits next to the road, and Reagan Washington National Airport a couple of miles south, aviation noise is common along my commute to the silver office towers in Rosslyn where Gannett Co Inc. were housed last autumn. But this engine noise was different. It was too sudden, too loud, too encompassing. Looking up didn't tell me what type of plane it was because it was so close I could only see the bottom. Realising the Pentagon was its target, I didn't think the careering, full-throttled craft would get that far. Its downward angle was too sharp, its elevation of maybe 50 feet, too low. Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass. ... Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon.

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Vin Narayanan

At 9:35 a.m., I pulled alongside the Pentagon. With traffic at a standstill, my eyes wandered around the road, looking for the cause of the traffic jam. Then I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed straight at the Pentagon. The windows were dark on American Airlines Flight 77 as it streaked toward its target, only 50 yards away. The hijacked jet slammed into the Pentagon at a ferocious speed. But the Pentagon's wall held up like a champ. It barely budged as the nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball.

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Scott Perry

"[The plane] was coming straight into the wedge," Perry said. "I saw it crash."

Most of them were physically not able to see the plane impact from where they were.

Really?

Steve Riskus

I am sorry to rain on your parade, but I saw the plane hit the building. It did not hit the ground first.... It did not hit the roof first... It hit dead center on the side... I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the "American Airlines" logo on the tail as it headed towards the building... The plane looked like it was coming in about where you have the "MAX APPROACH" on that picture... I was at about where the "E" in "ANGLE OF CAMERA" is written when the plane hit... It was not completely level, but it was not going straight down, kind of like it was landing with no gear down... It knocked over a few light poles in its way... I did not see any smoke or debris coming from the plane. I clearly saw the "AA" logo with the eagle in the middle... I don't really remember the engine configuration, but it did have those turbine engines on the wing... and yes, it did impact the Pentagon... There was none of this hitting-the-ground first crap I keep hearing... It was definitely an American Airlines jet... There is no doubt about that... When I got to work I checked it out."
 
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We were talking about the NoC witnesses, smith.


No, WE are talking about ALL the witnesses. Not some cherry picked special pleading group that support your delusion.

And you know what CIT says about those witnesses above?

  • they don't really exist
  • the ones that do exist are government plants
  • the ones who work for the media are lying
 
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As an aside, CE, what do you think about that list of witnesses AW posted?
 
Craig & Aldo don't debate....craig uses words & phrases he doesn't understand, apparently to try to sound smart (anyone remember "argument from incredjooly"?), and Aldo just goes with personal attacks.

Not that it matters...with all of this supposed "proof", the only place they should be doing any debating is a courtroom....but they get quite defensive when asked why they aren't doing so.

Craig & Aldo are frauds....if they were legit, they would not have a problem publishing a list of the prosecutors, attorneys, law enforcement agencies, etc that they've contacted with this "smoking gun" evidence. Since they refuse to provide that we can only assume that they haven't done squat, other than try to sell dvds and argue with people on the internet.

I agree. The funny think is that there is no way that they have made any money selling DVDs. Sure they may have sold a few to some idiots, but with plane tickets to DC and other expenses there is no way there they have made a profit. Then you factor in the huge amount of time they have spent arguing their insane "theory" on the internet. They are definitely in the negative for this nonsense, which, of course, is a good thing.
 
NoC = No one CARES. CIT are a couple of cartoon baffoons that simply help sane people who lurk about 9/11 truth websites realize how ridiculous the entire 9/11 truth movement is. They've done nothing but make asses out of themselves and have offered nothing of interest to anyone. They've wasted a lot of their time trying to be Dylan Avery wannabees. It's as hilarious as it is pathetic and sad.
 
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We were talking about the NoC witnesses, smith.

Ohhhh.

So if we exclude all of the other eyewitnesses to the impact that CIT didn't interview, most of the ones who are left didn't actually see the impact.......how exactly does that invalidate the statements of those who DID see it? Oh wait, it doesn't. Fail.
 
We were talking about the NoC witnesses, smith.

Really?

Sean Boger, worked at the Pentagon helipad air traffic control tower, which was between the building and the heliport. He was looking out the window and saw "the nose and the wing of the aircraft just like coming right at us, and he didn't veer... I am watching the plane go all the way into the building, " he stared as the Boeing 757 smacked into the building" less than 100 feet away.[29]
"I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building."

CIT, what a joke.
 
What I find amazing is that the waste of oxygen known as CIT has managed to actually recruit a few members into their cult.
 
It's an exercise in illogic.

  • 100% of physical evidence indicates plane hit the Pentagon
  • 100% of (group of people quoted above) saw the plane hit the Pentagon.
  • 100% of (group of people who CIT interviewed) at least believe that they saw the plane hit the Pentagon. Certainly at least one did. Some others are maybe confused or exaggerating. Not the first time this has happened.

Therefore, what, exactly?

ETA - and why are they right about the flight path but wrong about the plane hitting?

ETA - number of witness of 'flyover' = 0, right?
 
ETA - and why are they right about the flight path but wrong about the plane hitting?

Craig seems to think that determining a plane's location in 3-d space as it is moving 200+mph is easier than figuring out whether it hit a large building or not.

When you start with a premise as stupid as Craig's, you eventually come down to stupid arguments like this which are used to attempt to support it.
 
Do you have a picture for the one in bold?... I haven't seen that before.

The clincher for me is how could the perps pull off such an astonishing set of highly complex faked evidence, explosions and the rest (much of it in broad daylight by a busy road) and yet have the plane come in at totally the wrong angle? D'oh !!

Here's the most cunning, for my money - the scuff and missing foot peg. Now that really did need some lateral thinking !

vdot2.jpg


vdot3.jpg
 
Long story short, Caustic Logic thinks that all those witnesses are planted in a huge disinfo operation anyway.

Hey cool, my wackiness precedes me a bit. So C, do you agree with CL (disinfo or prank or something coordinated) or with JREF general opinion that they were all just individually mistaken in this bizarre way, or the CIT version that... well, you know. None of them seems quite right, but mine I think is the least silly. How bout you? It looks kind of like the last option. Congratulations.
 
...
Here's the most cunning, for my money - the scuff and missing foot peg. Now that really did need some lateral thinking !
When you piggyback on that photo a path from that post to the impact you get a heading, a true track, of 61.5 degrees also found in the FDR as the last heading recorded (and the fact is CIT ignores the FDR was found in the Pentagon from Flight 77 impact).

Go to GE and plot a line from the pole to the impact of the wing on the Pentagon and you get 61.5 degrees. Damage on pole matches heading, true track heading of flight 77.

GEdetective615.jpg


When you connect the dots in the real world, CIT become blithering idiots with nut case ideas.
 
Hey cool, my wackiness precedes me a bit. So C, do you agree with CL (disinfo or prank or something coordinated) or with JREF general opinion that they were all just individually mistaken in this bizarre way, or the CIT version that... well, you know. None of them seems quite right, but mine I think is the least silly. How bout you? It looks kind of like the last option. Congratulations.


When the Pentacon came out, i washed it away and think i even stated on this forum that perhaps CIT was spoonfed false information by the Pentagon Policemen. By now, this explanation makes no sense to me. I consider your theory less likely or at least not more plausable than CITs. But as i said, i'm not versed on the minutiae. I just recognized after watching NSA a few months ago that we have a huge problem with contradicting witness testimony here. There we agree.
 
When the Pentacon came out, i washed it away and think i even stated on this forum that perhaps CIT was spoonfed false information by the Pentagon Policemen. By now, this explanation makes no sense to me. I consider your theory less likely or at least not more plausable than CITs. But as i said, i'm not versed on the minutiae. I just recognized after watching NSA a few months ago that we have a huge problem with contradicting witness testimony here. There we agree.
This is where knowledge in taking and analyzing witness statements would help; you don't seem to have any training in this field. There is no problem with the witness testimony. Each witness experienced something on 911. The fact is we need zero witness statements to solve what happen to Flight 77. Why?
We have a FDR that shows exactly what 77 did.
We have RADAR from many sites that show the path of 77.
We have flight 77 in the Pentagon, all of it in pieces, melted, etc.
We have more than enough from many sources to solve what 77 did; don't need CIT witnesses, who actually verify 77 impact if you know how to analyze what they say, and ask the right questions; but years after, how lame.

The witness statements are all correct in a sense. I have never seen a CIT witness not point in the direction of the official flight path and it is hilarious as the dolts at CIT publish a video and the witnesses point to the real flight path.

Trained investigators have tools to help understand witness statements. The sounds witnesses hear are useful but are not synchronized with what they see due to the speed of sound and speed of light. But the statements are important when needed to solve some unknown about an accident or event. This is the key on 911, there are no unknowns except for people willfully ignorant.

When you analyze the witness statements properly they do not contradict each other but build what happen. Like the blind men and the elephant, you must use logic and knowledge to build the logical conclusion.

CIT is unable to use logic and knowledge, their toolbox is missing those elements and instead they use paranoid delusions to build their idiotic conclusions.
 

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