The United States is Not A Democracy

[Bill Thompson]

I was surprised that someone in this forum insisted that The United States is a democracy.

I corrected him and told him that the United States is a Representative Republic and not a democracy.

I was even more shocked when he insisted that a republic is just another name for a democracy.

The United States is not a democracy. If it was, there would be no need for an electoral college.

The United States is not a democracy and that is a good thing. If the masses made decisions entirely based on popularity, all we would have is stupid decisions. There is a reason why, in the English language the world "mediocre" is synonymous with both "average" and "stupid". Human beings are stupid creatures.

Individual states, on the other hands, are pretty much democracies and this is pretty much why California is in such hell. California is the most democratic state in the Union. Voters decide in a huge list of initiatives. They usually make the most stupid (although superficially most appealing) decisions. This means the eventually end up in debt and funds are funneled away from important things like education.

 

[Ryokan]

Representative republics are democracies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_democracy

 

[Francesca R]

There are very few comparisons that are global in scope where it would be sensible to state "No, the US is not a (liberal) democracy". Ask the audience . . .

 

[KingMerv00]

I was surprised that someone in this forum insisted that The United States is a democracy.

I corrected him and told him that the United States is a Representative Republic and not a democracy.

I was even more shocked when he insisted that a republic is just another name for a democracy.

The United States is not a democracy. If it was, there would be no need for an electoral college.

The United States is not a democracy and that is a good thing. If the masses made decisions entirely based on popularity, all we would have is stupid decisions. There is a reason why, in the English language the world "mediocre" is synonymous with both "average" and "stupid". Human beings are stupid creatures.

Individual states, on the other hands, are pretty much democracies and this is pretty much why California is in such hell. California is the most democratic state in the Union. Voters decide in a huge list of initiatives. They usually make the most stupid (although superficially most appealing) decisions. This means the eventually end up in debt and funds are funneled away from important things like education.

From dictionary.com (the FIRST definition):

1.government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

 

[JAStewart]

Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner

 

[TriskettheKid]

Yeah, we are a type of democracy.

But we are not a pure democracy.

I'd also go further and say we are more than a Representative Republic. After all, if you live in NY, you can't vote for a Senator from PA.

I'd say that we are a Federalist Constitutional Republic. We have many qualities of a representative republic, but we've got other measures (like our Federal setup and our Constitution) that also have to be accounted for.

 

[Praktik]

hmmm Im thinking these days "Plutocracy" is perhaps the most apt term..

 

[Bill Thompson]

Representative republics are democracies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_democracy

Because wikipedia says so?

Are there governments that call themselves "republics" that are clearly not democracies? Iran? China?

 

[Upchurch]

Because wikipedia says so?

Are there governments that call themselves "republics" that are clearly not democracies? Iran? China?

Are you saying we don't elect our representatives?

 

[PogoPedant]

USA is not a democracy, just like the Earth is not round.*

*For particularly narrow, uncommon, and impractical definitions of round and democracy.

 

[Francesca R]

There is that "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" I guess. (Good job it's not really democratic like California, else it'd be hell)

 

[Thunder]

I corrected him and told him that the United States is a Representative Republic and not a democracy. .

you are confusing "direct democracy" with democracy.

The USA, like Germany, Canada, France, Ireland, Australia, is a Representative Democracy. We are also a Republic, which simply means, a nation without a monarch.

 

[Thunder]

Are there governments that call themselves "republics" that are clearly not democracies? Iran? China?

China, like North Korea, is a Republic. Why? cause they have no monarch.

 

[Darth Rotor]

There are very few comparisons that are global in scope where it would be sensible to state "No, the US is not a (liberal) democracy". Ask the audience . . .

Argumentum ad populum versus (OP's) pointless semantic hair splitting

Cage match.

DR


(Though you are basically right in sentence number 1 ...)

 

[Francesca R]

Plato's Republic wasn't democratic, but the guardians exercised naked before doing their trigonometry.

 

[brodski]

Argumentum ad populum

when discussing the meaning of words what measure other than the use of those words within the particular linguistic community you are addressing would you use to determine meaning?

Argumentum ad populum is only a fallacy when it is not the opinions of the majority which determine the truth or otherwise of a claim.

 

[KingMerv00]

Because wikipedia says so?

Well, the dictionary too as I stated above.

 

[KingMerv00]

when discussing the meaning of words what measure other than the use of those words within the particular linguistic community you are addressing would you use to determine meaning?

Argumentum ad populum is only a fallacy when it is not the opinions of the majority which determine the truth or otherwise of a claim.

QFT

Definitions get all of their value from popular opinion.

 

[Ryokan]

Because wikipedia says so?

Are there governments that call themselves "republics" that are clearly not democracies? Iran? China?

Will you believe the dictionary then?

And there are quite a lot of republics that are not democracies. So they are just republics, compared to the USA which is a, you guessed it, democratic republic, making it both a democracy and a republic.

 

[Darth Rotor]

when discussing the meaning of words what measure other than the use of those words within the particular linguistic community you are addressing would you use to determine meaning?

Argumentum ad populum is only a fallacy when it is not the opinions of the majority which determine the truth or otherwise of a claim.

Precisely. If the majority of people in this audience agree with Bill, that doensn't make his claim true; and if the majority of the people disagree with Bill, that does not make it false. The only argument may have is how to agree on what usage of "democracy" we (including Bill) can apply to Bill's claim, and then discuss it with him.

Note what I marked in Italics in Francesca's post? "Ask the audience"

It wasn't Bill's OP I was commenting upon.

(Of course, the indirect pun regarding ad populum linked to democracy probably didn't come across at all here ...)

DR