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Hardfire: Szamboti / Chandler / Mackey

AZCat said:
Not only is he having "memory problems", but he's trying to spin this little tangent into a win for him over at Gregory's forum.

[...]

So he's turned his inability to properly phrase a question into you avoiding answering. What did someone just say about baffling with B.S.?
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Yes, I saw that. Can't say I'm surprised. What he's doing now is creating a pretext to disengage while preserving his illusion of having "won," when in reality he merely said something unintelligible.

If this is the last we hear from him, so much the better, I think. 40+ pages in this thread now, an hour and a half of debate, and he doesn't seem to have learned a single thing. More argumentation will not help him.
 
Edx said:
The WTC7 building covered an entire block.

The fires were started on the south side and progressed all the way over to the north side.

Therefore the fires were the size of a city block.

How many fire extinguishers would you have collected to put out Building 7's fires?
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I'm not going to go around with you in this debunker two-step again.

I invite the Readers to note your logic. I would guess a few dozen fire extinguishers would have been enough to put out the dozen or so small fires that were observed soon after the collapse of the North Tower. Thousands could have been available at the drop of a hat with hundreds of men to man them.
 
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Tony can't get his real-cd-deal off the ground. The failed peanut gallery thinks fires can be put out by magic; oops the no fire fire.

wtc7fire3.jpg
 
bill smith said:
I'm not going to go around with you in this debunker two-step again.

I invite the Readers to note your logic. I would guess a few dozen fire extinguishers would have been enough to put out the dozen or so small fires that were observed soon after the collapse of the North Tower. Thousands could have been available at the drop of a hat with hundreds of men to man them.
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Here's your "small fire".

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC7_Fire_Videos

Pick the one labeled "unknown source Another view"
 
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bill smith said:
I'm not going to go around with you in this debunker two-step again.

I invite the Readers to note your logic. I would guess a few dozen fire extinguishers would have been enough to put out the dozen or so small fires that were observed soon after the collapse of the North Tower. Thousands could have been available at the drop of a hat with hundreds of men to man them.
Click to expand...

There we have it, Bill thinks a dozen would have been enough to put out fires the size of a city block.

Well done, Bill.
 
BigAl said:
Here's your "small fire".

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/WTC7_Fire_Videos

Pick the one labeled "unknown source Another view"
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This fire is at it's zenith. I specifically said that I was talking about he dozen or so tiny fires that were apparently started by the collapse of the Nprth Tower. At that time fire extinguishers which were available by the hundreds were more than sufficient to extinguish the small fires.

I made a point to let the readers see how debunkers twist and lie. Note how Al shows the well developed fires in place of the initial pinpricks.(As I anticipated) See hyperlink

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5393344&postcount=1622 hyperlink
 
bill smith said:
I specifically said that I was talking about he dozen or so tiny fires that were apparently started by the collapse of the Nprth Tower. At that time fire extinguishers which were available by the hundreds were more than sufficient to extinguish the small fires.
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No you did not. You referred to videos showing the initial itty-bitty fires. Our very point is that the fires were not itty-bitty in any video showing them. When the fires initiated following the collapse of WTC1, they were not visible outside the building which was itself shrouded by dust expelled by WTC1.

The example I posted is of a fire that started inside a building which would not have been visible on the outside of the building until it was way too late to put it out with "fire extinguishers". It probably was too late even after 15 seconds after initiation.
 
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bill smith said:
This fire is at it's zenith. I specifically said that I was talking about he dozen or so tiny fires that were apparently started by the collapse of the Nprth Tower. At that time fire extinguishers which were available by the hundreds were more than sufficient to extinguish the small fires.

I made a point to let the readers see how debunkers twist and lie. Note how Al shows the well developed fires in place of the initial pinpricks.(As I anticipated) See hyperlink

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5393344&postcount=1622 hyperlink
Click to expand...

The fire in the videos you are talking about are not small they span AN ENTIRE BLOCK.
 
bill smith said:
This fire is at it's zenith. I specifically said that I was talking about he dozen or so tiny fires that were apparently started by the collapse of the Nprth Tower. At that time fire extinguishers which were available by the hundreds were more than sufficient to extinguish the small fires.

I made a point to let the readers see how debunkers twist and lie. Note how Al shows the well developed fires in place of the initial pinpricks.(As I anticipated)
Click to expand...

Bill seems to think there is an extinguisher behind every door of every office in Manhattan. That is not the case. I figure you have to break into 10 offices for each one found.

So it takes an hour to round up a significant (to you) number of extinguishers. This includes the time it takes to break into buildings and seach for them, take them back and then carry them up all the flights of stairs.

If the fire ever was controllable, it is no more after burning for an hour.
 
I'm shaking my head that you guys are still playing with the BS ghost troll.
It's like arguing with a ghost that doesn't know it's dead.

ETA if you really want it to die then don't engage it. Take away the life support.
 
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BigAl said:
Bill seems to think there is an extinguisher behind every door of every office in Manhattan. That is not the case. I figure you have to break into 10 offices for each one found.

So it takes an hour to round up a significant (to you) number of extinguishers. This includes the time it takes to break into buildings and seach for them, take them back and then carry them up all the flights of stairs.

If the fire ever was controllable, it is no more after burning for an hour.
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I've been in many offices in my life and can only remember seeing a few extinguishers at most in the entire building. It would take forever to round up as many as Bill talks about.

So long as someone like Tony doesnt suggest this, I dont care about Bills delusion.
 
BigAl said:
Bill seems to think there is an extinguisher behind every door of every office in Manhattan. That is not the case. I figure you have to break into 10 offices for each one found.

So it takes an hour to round up a significant (to you) number of extinguishers. This includes the time it takes to break into buildings and seach for them, take them back and then carry them up all the flights of stairs.

If the fire ever was controllable, it is no more after burning for an hour.
Click to expand...

Edx said:
I've been in many offices in my life and can only remember seeing a few extinguishers at most in the entire building. It would take forever to round up as many as Bill talks about.

So long as someone like Tony doesnt suggest this, I dont care about Bills delusion.
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Just FYI, here's the OSHA standard on fire extinguisher placement. It is based on employee travel distance:

1910.157(d)(2)
The employer shall distribute portable fire extinguishers for use by employees on Class A fires so that the travel distance for employees to any extinguisher is 75 feet (22.9 m) or less.

ETA: The travel distance for Class B extinguishers is 50 ft, so for ABC extinguishers I'd expect to find one at this 50 foot maximum.
​
 
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And also a lot of the time these extinguishers were only small little things, not the large ones you may see in hallways or something.
 
bardamu said:
You're missing the point. The Irreducible Delusion does not lead to a complete shift in position. It's an explanation why some people refuse to abandon their original theory.

Now it just so happens that the debunkers have held on to their original theory of 9/11 for 8 years, while most truthers have evolved over the same period and come to a completely different conclusion.

That doesn't necessarily mean that all debunkers are suffering from the Irreducible Delusion, but it does mean that most truthers are not.
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Were that last post supported by evidence, it might have some connection to reality.

But I have a question for you Bard: Did the WTC towers collapse into their own footprints? A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
 
alienentity said:
Were that last post supported by evidence, it might have some connection to reality.

But I have a question for you Bard: Did the WTC towers collapse into their own footprints? A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
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AE...

can't leave out wtc7 (cuz twoofs like to quibble)

you should be asking
did the towers or wtc7 collapse into their own footprint?

We already know his answer (which is wrong) but hey... maybe he will have taken his meds and give a real (correct) answer... but I doubt it.
 
TruthersLie said:
AE...

can't leave out wtc7 (cuz twoofs like to quibble)

you should be asking
did the towers or wtc7 collapse into their own footprint?

We already know his answer (which is wrong) but hey... maybe he will have taken his meds and give a real (correct) answer... but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

I'm only interested in the towers at the moment. The reason will become clear as soon as Bard answers.

cheers
 
alienentity said:
Were that last post supported by evidence, it might have some connection to reality.

But I have a question for you Bard: Did the WTC towers collapse into their own footprints? A simple yes or no will be sufficient.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

They fell straight down, but the explosions blew debris well outside of the footprint.
 
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