Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays

[roger]

What I am wondering is why do people feel that they need to greet people in a holiday fashion on something other than the holiday? Why all of december? Why not the whole year?

So happy birthday everyone!

I'm with you. I can't recall every volunteering a "Merry Christmas" or any other holiday greeting. Not because of religion - if "Merry Labor Day" was a saying, I wouldn't be saying it either. And, not so much because I'm against it, but because it just doesn't make any sense to me, so it would never occur to me to say it.

Do you feel better or different or whatever when somebody says Merry Christmas to you? I don't get it. Maybe you do. I don't. For me it's no different than "drive safely" - I'm not going to drive any differently than if you didn't say it, it's just kind of a weak well wishing as far as I can figure (I never say "drive safely" or "be careful" either).

I just hear it as one of those dozens of social lubrication sayings that I'm not good at and don't react to.

So, do you feel better if someone says "Merry Christmas" or "drive safely"? If you say either, are they more or less the same to you, or am I missing something basic and they are very different for you?

I just don't get it.

 

[Radically Rethinking]

I see the word "Christmas" being used everywhere so these people are seriously overreacting. Last month I was at Disneyworld and there were ads everywhere for their upcoming seasonal events, with the actual word "Christmas" being used quite frequently. Yesterday I was eating lunch at Fazoli's (Italian fast-food chain) and all the background music was Christmas music. Including the religious songs.

My parents of course think they're being persecuted. They've mostly stopped rolling their eyes every time they hear "Happy holidays" but if someone on TV says the word "Christmas," one of them will usually say--really sarcastically--something like "Oh no someone said Christmas!! Call the ACLU!!"

Me, I hate most canned greetings so I don't use either. Years ago at a Christmas Eve church service with my family, when it was over and everyone was making their way out, everyone just had to shake everyone else's hand while saying "Merry Christmas." After about five minutes of repeating "Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas..." over and over and over and over and over and over ad nauseam I decided I never wanted to ever say it again.

Really though, I do love Christmas, even if it is only for the traditional cultural aspects. However, I also believe that anyone who thinks Christmas music is appropriate before Thanksgiving should be drug out into the street and shot.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I can only support this if the traditional food involves a cookie made out of a thin cake wrapped around fig paste.

I give the kids apple juice and Fig Newtons

 

[pgwenthold]

1) Where the heck is the Monkey to say, "Merry Walrus"? (a sign I've been here too long)
2) I don't care what people say to me, but I tend to say "Happy Holidays." That includes whatever holiday you want it to, including Thanksgiving and the New Year, or the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (that is today, btw, to commemorate how "Mary was conceived without the stain of original sin" - tis a holy day of obligation), the Feast of St Nicolaus (last Sunday), the Feast of the Holy Family (this year on Sunday the 27th), the Feast of Holy Mary (Jan 1), the feast of the Magi visiting (sorry, I forget the name, but it is Jan 6), and, yes, even Christmas, Hannukah, or Kwanza. So don't tell me that "Happy Holidays" is anti-christian - it is all-inclusive. It is the season of Holidays, let's celebrate them all.
3) Just to reiterate the irony of
a) Complaining that Christmas is too commercialized, and
b) Complaining that stores aren't being christmassy enough

4) RandFan - why such a stretch to get the "secular" christmas carol. Aside from the standard cartoon/kids versions (Rudolph, Frosty, Here Comes Santa Claus, etc), there are even those among the old standards. What does Jingle Bells have to do with Jesus? Nothing. Winter Wonderland? Let It Snow? My favorite secular christmas carol is Deck the Halls, which is clearly (when you look at all the verses) an old solstace song, having nothing to do with Christmas.

 

[pgwenthold]

More about commercialism (I wanted this in a separate post)

Tonight (Dec 8), ABC will be showing the Charlie Brown Christmas, a favorite christmas special for many. Whenever I hear about "commercialization of christmas," I always think of the Charlie Brown Christmas, where Charlie Brown laments, "Can't anyone tell me the true meaning of Christmas?!" Now, aside from Linus's sappy telling of the story from Luke, the thing to remember is that this christmas special was made in 1966. More than 40 years ago. And what was the message then? "Christmas is becoming too commercialized." (Lucy says, "It's run by an Eastern Syndicate, you know" - that's a hoot)

For that reason, I don't take claims that "christmas is too commercial" very seriously. There's an old saying about baseball: "Two things have always been said: there's never enough left-handed pitching, and the owners never make any money." Add onto the list, "Christmas has become too commerical."

Curiously, if you look at the things that were considered "too commercial" in Charlie Brown, one of them was the fact that Snoopy entered a "Neighborhood Lights and Display" contest. Nowadays, the same people who complain about christmas being too commericial will be the ones trying to outdue the neighbors with their lights displays. Yep, inflatable snowglobes and wire reindeer really captures the true meaning of christmas, so long as you have "Joy to the World" written on your roof in multi-colored lights.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I am intrigued by the idea of iguana soup. What did it taste like?

Iguana

 

[ponderingturtle]

More about commercialism (I wanted this in a separate post)

Tonight (Dec 8), ABC will be showing the Charlie Brown Christmas, a favorite christmas special for many. Whenever I hear about "commercialization of christmas," I always think of the Charlie Brown Christmas, where Charlie Brown laments, "Can't anyone tell me the true meaning of Christmas?!" Now, aside from Linus's sappy telling of the story from Luke, the thing to remember is that this christmas special was made in 1966. More than 40 years ago. And what was the message then? "Christmas is becoming too commercialized." (Lucy says, "It's run by an Eastern Syndicate, you know" - that's a hoot)

Hey christmass was comercialized as a deliberate (and successful) attempt by Washington Irving and Charles Dickens to rebrand christmass. It used to be a time for drunken revelry, rather like marti gras. They wanted it more focused on the family and the children.

So if you want a traditional christmass don't spend time with the kids, but go out and get hammered.

 

[pgwenthold]

Hey christmass was comercialized as a deliberate (and successful) attempt by Washington Irving and Charles Dickens to rebrand christmass. It used to be a time for drunken revelry, rather like marti gras. They wanted it more focused on the family and the children.

So if you want a traditional christmass don't spend time with the kids, but go out and get hammered.

Can we take the kids with us? We'll need a designated driver.

Speaking of nothing in particular, what is that bible verse that says, "Don't be like the heathens, who decorate their trees" or something like that?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Speaking of nothing in particular, what is that bible verse that says, "Don't be like the heathens, who decorate their trees" or something like that?

That's not in there. The Biblical position on Xmas (and any other holiday) is simple -- live and let live:

Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

 

[quixotecoyote]

That's not in there.

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.

Beware the evergreen idols!

 

[pgwenthold]

That's not in there. :

Jeremiah 10:2-4

Jeremiah 10:2 KJV Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. .

 

[pgwenthold]

3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

I used a handsaw, is that ok?

 

[AvalonXQ]

Jeremiah 10:2-4

Jeremiah 10:2 KJV Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. .

That's in reference to carving an idol out of wood, not bringing in a tree.
Heck, bringing a tree into the house for solstace celebrations (rather than just decorating the trees outside) is a relatively recent phenomenon.

 

[The Nimble Pianist]

I'm still waiting to hear of a Jehovah's Witness becoming offended by any holiday salutation.

Personally, I don't care either way. I don't quibble over a person's choice of words rather I prefer to judge what they say in light of their intentions. As a bartender, I've come to stop wishing happy anything to anyone. If a guest says it to me first, I'll reply "you too!"

 

[Piggy]

I say "Merry Christmas" to people around here, because that's what they're celebrating.

 

[CriticalSock]

I'm still waiting to hear of a Jehovah's Witness becoming offended by any holiday salutation.

Personally, I don't care either way. I don't quibble over a person's choice of words rather I prefer to judge what they say in light of their intentions. As a bartender, I've come to stop wishing happy anything to anyone. If a guest says it to me first, I'll reply "you too!"

Eh?! My JW's become offended at every holiday salutation! christmas is anathema, easter too. Haloween? NO!

It's caused family problems that I'm going to my works christmas ball, purely because it's got the word christmas in the title, the actual xmas content in a bunch of colleagues getting drunk and eating finger food is zero.

 

[pgwenthold]

That's in reference to carving an idol out of wood, not bringing in a tree.

Huh?

They 1) cut a tree out of the forest (using an axe)
2) decorate _it_ (referring to the tree) with silver and gold, and
3) afix it so it can't be moved.

I don't see any reference to carving it into an idol, and it explicitly talks about taking a tree out of the forest and decorating IT.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Huh?

They 1) cut a tree out of the forest (using an axe)
2) decorate _it_ (referring to the tree) with silver and gold, and
3) afix it so it can't be moved.

I don't see any reference to carving it into an idol, and it explicitly talks about taking a tree out of the forest and decorating IT.

You miss the clause "the work of the hands of the workmen" -- i.e., the woodworker that carves the tree into an idol. Tree decoration in this period didn't involve cutting down the tree; if you cut down the tree you carved it into something.
Again, if you read the passage in context it's obvious what they're talking about -- the fact that idols are made by human hands, and are not the same as YHWH God.

 

[cwalner]

Hey christmass was comercialized as a deliberate (and successful) attempt by Washington Irving and Charles Dickens to rebrand christmass. It used to be a time for drunken revelry, rather like marti gras. They wanted it more focused on the family and the children.

So if you want a traditional christmass don't spend time with the kids, but go out and get hammered.

Ah, yes. Gives a new (actually old) meaning to becoming filled with the holiday spirit.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

You miss the clause "the work of the hands of the workmen" -- i.e., the woodworker that carves the tree into an idol. Tree decoration in this period didn't involve cutting down the tree; if you cut down the tree you carved it into something.
Again, if you read the passage in context it's obvious what they're talking about -- the fact that idols are made by human hands, and are not the same as YHWH God.

The workman is specifically part of the cutting down of the tree with the axe, though.