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Hardfire: Szamboti / Chandler / Mackey

Tony Szamboti said:
The AE911truth petition, which I am a signatory of, is asking for a new investigation with subpoena power to depose a number of people who were involved in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. A lot of these questions could be answered that way.

I can't depose anyone and put them under oath and it is silly to even suggest that I go asking these questions of these people myself.
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Tony, why do you need a subpoena to ask the FDNY why they couldnt fight the fires?

This isnt about you not believing them, you've shown repeatedly that you dont know why they say they couldnt fight the fires.

So just ask them! Whats so hard about that!
 
Tony Szamboti said:
Are you actually claiming that somebody could have gotten rid of the Enron California electricity scam files in the SEC offices of WTC 7 by using a paper shredder?
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Are you saying the most effective way would be to collapse the building? BTW, how did that work out for them?
 
bill smith said:
I will expeect you to have an answer to this. I say that we have seen almost nothing of the firemen who were at ground zero on 9/11. The only info we really get is from he Fealgood Foundation is about how they are dying like flies
from diseases caused by the comtsaminents at ground zero that the government ordered the EPA to deny.

So tell me why the public we have seen so litle of the firemen ?
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1. So all the interviews we have of firefighters on 911 are... not enough for you?

2. None of them have come out saying they think there is anything suspicious about Building 7. But then you think they are all in on the coverup and lying, so they wouldnt in your world.

We have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe what you are saying.
 
Edx said:
The papper shredder example is just to say that coming up with a massive conspiracy to demonlish your building, pay off or scare firefighters into lying about it, invent super secret silent explosives, pay off clean up crews etc etc etc... all to destroy some documents...is ridiculous.
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It is ludicrous to even suggest that a paper shredder could be used to eliminate a case such as the Enron California electricity swindle of 2001.

I don't think any member of the FDNY had to be in on anything. I already said it could be as simple as the manipulation of Chief Daniel Nigro.
 
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Edx said:
1. So all the interviews we have of firefighters on 911 are... not enough for you?

2. None of them have come out saying they think there is anything suspicious about Building 7. But then you think they are all in on the coverup and lying, so they wouldnt in your world.

We have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe what you are saying.
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Of course it's not enough. They were the heroes of the day and the whole world wants to ask them lots and lots of questions. So were they shy or something or were they under heavy intimidation to stay away from interviews. I know--do you ?
 
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DGM said:
Are you saying the most effective way would be to collapse the building? BTW, how did that work out for them?
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Of course its better to spread them all over the streets of lower Manhattan than to shred them.

Ground_Zero_Streets_19.jpg
 
Edx said:
1. So all the interviews we have of firefighters on 911 are... not enough for you?

2. None of them have come out saying they think there is anything suspicious about Building 7. But then you think they are all in on the coverup and lying, so they wouldnt in your world.

We have absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe what you are saying.
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Tut tut Edx...I see that you are back saying that the Movement for Truth is accusing all the firefighters of being complicit in 9/11 instead of the small fraction we do claim.. Can you really be that sad ? The readers are disgusted and can now see how debunkers routinely behave.
 
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Tony Szamboti said:
It is ludicrous to even suggest that a paper shredder could be used to eliminate a case such as the Enron California electricity swindle of 2001.
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So they did what I said to demolish their building, wow.

I don't think any member of the FDNY had to be in on anything. I already said it could be as simple as the manipulation of Chief Daniel Nigro.
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But the problem Tony is that if that were true why dont we have any dissenting opinions from any of them?

And the ones that do talk about 7 say...

- it had heavy uncontrollable fires
- the fires couldnt be fought
- that it was heavily damaged
- that they expected it was going to collapse
- that they made a collapse zone
- that they waited around for it to happen
- none of them even imply they had a problem with how it collapsed

So no dissenters and dozens and dozens directly talking about it that say the same thing as Nigro.

You see you cant say the things you do about Building 7 and Nigro and not implicate the rest of the FDNY.
 
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bill smith said:
Tut tut Edx...I see that you are back saying that the Movement for Truth is accusing all the firefighters of being complicit in 9/11 instead of the small fraction we do claim.. Can you really be that sad ? The readers are disgusted and can now see how debunkers routinely behave.
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Tut Tut to you Bill, you already told me it was all the firefighters since you said their families were threatened so they cant tell the truth.

:rolleyes:
 
Tony Szamboti said:
The Enron California electricity swindle case did go down with WTC 7. Are you saying it didn't?
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it went down when ken lay died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis

Enron eventually went bankrupt, and signed a US$1.52 billion settlement with a group of California agencies and private utilities on July 16, 2005. However, due to its other bankruptcy obligations, only US$202 million of this was expected to be paid. Ken Lay was convicted of multiple criminal charges unrelated to the California energy crisis on May 25, 2006, but he died due to a massive heart attack on July 5 of that year before he could be sentenced. Because Lay died while his case was on federal appeal, his record was expunged and his family was allowed to retain all its property.
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bill smith said:
Of course it's not enough. They were the heroes of the day and the whole world wants to ask them lots and lots of questions. So were they shy or something or were they under heavy intimidation to stay away from interviews. I know--do you ?
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Just how many interviews do you think there are? Theres LOADS of interviews.

But according to you they are sitting back and not saying anthing, which means an interview wouldnt solve anything and you would just go back to saying they are too afraid to tell the truth.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
There is a reason they make pumper trucks.

It can be shown in a sound way that there would have been no problem bringing water to WTC 7 from the fireboats or hydrants from 1 or even 2 miles away and sending it with sufficient pressure to the 20th floor. The fireboats were only a few hundred yards away and had massive pumps on them which probably wouldn't even require augmentation. If there was a need, firetruck pumpers could be employed to compensate for any pressure loss due to distance. The same would go for using water from distant hydrants.
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Well, Tony.

Why don't you write up the plan to do that.

Be sure to list all the equipment necessary, figure out where it is, make sure you send teams out to check the water pressure at 1, 2, 5 & 10 miles away. Because you don't want to do all that work & have squat to show for it.

[I did hear a story about a woman who couldn't fill her swimming pool miles away because of the low pressure. But that's just apocryphal. You can't afford to use guess work.]

Oh, yeah. We need that plan NOW, Tony. Right the f'k NOW! Because these buildings are falling down around us. There are thousands of people dead and injured. And a significant percentage of your fire department is dead. And all the rest of them are exhausted.

But, you get working on that plan, Tony.

And come back & tell us why YOU weren't able to bring in enough water to save the day.

You're really starting to piss me off.

Have you ever worked in the field? Have you ever had to make due without the right equipment, without the right tools, without the manpower you needed? With no time & no room for error?

Have you ever had to make a decision as to what or (God forbid) who you could save & what or who you could not?

Have you ever had some two-bit PUNK come along afterward and, from the snuggly warmth of abject ignorance, start to lecture you on what you did wrong?? What you SHOULD have done. And what HE would have done. (If he'd ever gotten his lard ass out from in front of a TV and done something useful with his life.)

Have you ever had to resist the urge to reach across a table & squeeze the two-bit punk's head like a zit, Tony?

This really is a despicable line of conversation for you. You may want to go back & re-think it.

And if you still think that it's appropriate, I suggest that you bring it where it'll do some real good: a firefighter's bar in the Bronx.

Let me know how that goes, OK?

Tom
 
DGM said:
I've yet to see any credible evidence that it was a factor, yes.
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t's worth noting the scale of the Enron California electricity swindle that was partially covered up by the destruction of so many original documents held in WTC7 on 9/11..

Sixy-Seven thousand million dollars.

PS.
The Worldcom investigaion among others was compromised too.
 
Edx said:
Just how many interviews do you think there are? Theres LOADS of interviews.

But according to you they are sitting back and not saying anthing, which means an interview wouldnt solve anything and you would just go back to saying they are too afraid to tell the truth.
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THere are none so blind as those who will not see. No matter. That is par for the course here in the heart of Shilldom...the jref.
 
bill smith said:
THere are none so blind as those who will not see. No matter. That is par for the course here in the heart of Shilldom...the jref.
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You've yet to show me or anyone else anything except your blind insinuations.

Give me a reason to suspect the firefighters are too scared to tell the truth! A Reason!
 
Tony Szamboti said:
Are you actually claiming that somebody could have gotten rid of the Enron California electricity scam files in the SEC offices of WTC 7 by using a paper shredder?
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Well files come in 2 versions...paper and electronic. A magnet or software can destroy one kind, a paper shredder the other. Neither require BUILDING DEMOLITION. However, if that is what you are suggesting, I would like to nominate such a thought for stundie.

TAM:)
 
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