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Hardfire: Szamboti / Chandler / Mackey

R.Mackey said:
Rather, I think at this point the derail is itself instructive.

Nobody's backing Tony up. Nobody even seems to care.

The Truth Movement is in such utter disarray that the only response they can concoct is the pre-programmed one, of just spamming their garbage over and over again, diving off into the weeds of whatever each particular individual believes (no matter how stupid), or nit-picking anything I say or do.
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My only opinion at this point is if Tony or any other individual has complaints regarding the code changes brought about by the NIST report they have plenty of time to bring their concerns up to the appropriate venues. I believe the inaction on that area is telling in of itself. I was kind of slow on watching the hardfire debates so I don't know how practical it is to comment on them at this point except to say that it's interesting to be able to watch the debate from person to person rather than through a text-based reading. But with the repetitiveness of the points it was still strange to read it and then see it spoken. Just my piff of the day :\
 
Grizzly Bear said:
[...] it's interesting to be able to watch the debate from person to person rather than through a text-based reading. But with the repetitiveness of the points it was still strange to read it and then see it spoken.
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It was even weirder to say it. :boggled:

Going over it yet again a dozen times here, after the debate was over, I've gotten used to after dealing with these people. Some folks simply will not let go, no matter what.
 
triforcharity said:
Neither did he.




Yeah, so they were in on it.
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You don't seem to understand Tri. Some of the firemen were in on it without a doubt. Perhaps a few dozen or even less. The rest just did their job. I hope you have it straight now.

In other words nobody is saying, or has ever said that all of the firemen were in on it.
 
Bill,

You have no evidence, or anything really.

Please, in another thread, provide evidence of such. I would love to see it. I will even start your own thread for you.
 
bill smith said:
You don't seem to understand Tri. Some of the firemen were in on it without a doubt. Perhaps a few dozen or even less. The rest just did their job. I hope you have it straight now.
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What did this handful of firemen do on 9/11? Did they light the invisible fuse that set of the silent demolition explosives in WTC7 that none of the eyewitnesses saw?
 
BigAl said:
What did this handful of firemen do on 9/11? Did they light the invisible fuse that set of the silent demolition explosives in WTC7 that none of the eyewitnesses saw?
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All that had to be done was to prevent the fires in WTC 7 from being fought, so they could be used as a cover for it's demolition.

One would not need to go in the building to fight the fires either. The fireboats only a few hundred yards away could have been used with the siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 to supply the sprinkler systems. Hoses from distant fire hydrants could have also been run. There were several siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 and they were never hooked up to at any time, due to the orders of a certain fire chief. So maybe it wouldn't even be a handful but as little as one person with authority from the FDNY that would need to be involved.

There are quotes of many firefighters who were befuddled that they weren't being allowed to fight the fires in WTC 7.

Curiosly, by about 12:30 PM on 911 the Giulliani administration was saying WTC 7 was lost, even though there is no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 until 12:15 PM. Think about that.
 
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Tony Szamboti said:
All the small handful had to do was prevent the fires in WTC 7 from being fought, so they could be used as a cover for it's demolition.

There was no reason that the fireboats only a few hundred yards away couldn't have been used with the siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 to supply the sprinkler systems. Hoses from distant fire hydrants could have also been run. There were several siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7.
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Are you really going there tony? Really?

By all means please provide the names of these "few" who let 343 of their fellows be murdered.

Not one has come forward with a guilty concience? Really? Parts of that massive conspiracy in the thousands without a single person going to the NYTimes, the BBC, or the Hague.

Such operational security... wow... but it can be figured out by scooby and the gang... if it wasn't for those blased kids.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
The fireboats only a few hundred yards away could have been used with the siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 to supply the sprinkler systems. Hoses from distant fire hydrants could have also been run. There were several siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 and they were never hooked up to at any time due to the orders of a certain fire chief. So maybe it wouldn't even be a handful but one or two people from the FDNY that would need to be involved.
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One fireboat. It was in use to squelch fires in support of search and rescue.

WTC7 was a lost cause, even if water reduced the collapse, the structure was beyond use. As an engineer, you should realize that any large structure that is visibly out of plumb is going to come down one way or another.

Curiosly, by about 12:30 PM on 911 the Giulliani administration was saying WTC 7 was lost, even though there is no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 until 12:15 PM. Think about that.
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No pictures? So what? There are a bunch of reasons why images from the south side fire are poor and rare. The billowing smoke fron WTC7 and haze from the rest of WTC, for starters.

Protracted fire exceeded the capability of fireproofing to protect the structure. It collapsed.

Both of these fire scientists have first-hand experience with WTC and say you are wrong.
Glenn Corbett, professor of fire science at John Jay College of
Criminal Justice says that fire and damage caused all collapse at WTC.
relevant expertise. John Jay is part of the City University of New
York, emphasizing criminal justice and fire science.
http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/

http://audio.wnyc.org/bl/bl091407e.mp3
(Colbert starts 5 minutes into the audio)

Corbett trains NY firemen and is involved with setting fire
codes. It's his job to understand what happened so as to
teach firemen how to stay alive and to make buildings safe.

Prof. Jonathan Barnett, Fire protection engineer
Professor Jonathan R. Barnett, Ph.D.
Center For Firesafety Studies
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
Worcester, Massachusetts, USA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWpOfUMz6SE
(WTC5 WTC7 40 seconds.)
http://www.asce.org/pdf/bio_jbarnett.pdf
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There are quotes of many firefighters who were befuddled that they weren't being allowed to fight the fires in WTC 7
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Even if true, so what? It's like asking a private why the generals are asking him to do something he doesn't understand.

I'd actually see a name or two to confirm your claim. Got one?
 
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TruthersLie said:
Are you really going there tony? Really?

By all means please provide the names of these "few" who let 343 of their fellows be murdered.

Not one has come forward with a guilty concience? Really? Parts of that massive conspiracy in the thousands without a single person going to the NYTimes, the BBC, or the Hague.

Such operational security... wow... but it can be figured out by scooby and the gang... if it wasn't for those blased kids.
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The TM is not into the "naming names" business, because then they would have to face those they accuse publicly. Nah, best to cowardly accuse "generic higher ups" in organization X, so that no one in particular can get in their face and pommel it to a pulp.

TAM:)
 
BigAl said:
One fireboat. It was in use to squelch fires in support of search and rescue.

WTC7 was a lost cause, even if water reduced the collapse, the structure was beyond use. As an engineer, you should realize that any large structure that is visibly out of plumb is going to come down one way or another.



No pictures? So what? There are a bunch of reasons why images from the south side fire are poor and rare. The billowing smoke fron WTC7 and haze from the rest of WTC, for starters.

Protracted fire exceeded the capability of fireproofing to protect the structure. It collapsed.

Both of these fire scientists have first-hand experience with WTC and say you are wrong.
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Are you saying the city of New York only had one fireboat?

You really should stop using the ridiculous talking point about a building with the footprint of a football field having a wall which was purportedly bulged having anything to do with it's total collapse.

There were siamese fittings on three sides of WTC 7 and they were never hooked up to. That is something which needs to be questioned and there is a certain fire chief who needs to answer for it.
 
T.A.M. said:
The TM is not into the "naming names" business, because then they would have to face those they accuse publicly. Nah, best to cowardly accuse "generic higher ups" in organization X, so that no one in particular can get in their face and pommel it to a pulp.

TAM:)
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I have no problem naming names. I want fire chief Daniel Nigro deposed under oath and asked the types of questions I am bringing up here.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
All that had to be done was to prevent the fires in WTC 7 from being fought, so they could be used as a cover for it's demolition.

One would not need to go in the building to fight the fires either. The fireboats only a few hundred yards away could have been used with the siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 to supply the sprinkler systems. Hoses from distant fire hydrants could have also been run. There were several siamese fittings on the outside of WTC 7 and they were never hooked up to at any time, due to the orders of a certain fire chief. So maybe it wouldn't even be a handful but as little as one person with authority from the FDNY that would need to be involved.

There are quotes of many firefighters who were befuddled that they weren't being allowed to fight the fires in WTC 7.

Curiosly, by about 12:30 PM on 911 the Giulliani administration was saying WTC 7 was lost, even though there is no photographic evidence of fires in WTC 7 until 12:15 PM. Think about that.
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They won't think about it because an explanation is good enough. The fires weren't fought, the water was cut off, what more do you need to know? Forget about the fact that a rather endless supply of water was only a few hundred yards away
 
RedIbis said:
They won't think about it because an explanation is good enough. The fires weren't fought, the water was cut off, what more do you need to know? Forget about the fact that a rather endless supply of water was only a few hundred yards away
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The building was out of plumb due to fire and therefore a write-off. No lives were at risk.
 
Tony Szamboti said:
There were siamese fittings on three sides of WTC 7 and they were never hooked up to. That is something which needs to be questioned and there is a certain fire chief who needs to answer for it.
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As I recall a couple of 110 story buildings collapsed rendering the city's water supply in that area practically useless.
 
TruthersLie said:
Are you really going there tony? Really?

By all means please provide the names of these "few" who let 343 of their fellows be murdered.

Not one has come forward with a guilty concience? Really? Parts of that massive conspiracy in the thousands without a single person going to the NYTimes, the BBC, or the Hague.

Such operational security... wow... but it can be figured out by scooby and the gang... if it wasn't for those blased kids.
Click to expand...

Being involved in dropping WTC 7 doesn't equate to letting 343 of their fellow firefighters be murdered. Nobody died in WTC 7.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
As I recall a couple of 110 story buildings collapsed rendering the city's water supply in that area practically useless.
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Distant hydrants would not have been affected and the city of New York had several fireboats. Firefighters routinely run lines from distances when necessary.

Sorry but the water mains in the area were broken by the tower collapses excuse doesn't hack it.
 
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