Support for Scottish Independence falling

[HypnoPsi]

It is a good point - if the SNP can get the question that Alex Salmon has in his head (he knows what question it is but he won't tell us yet) onto the referendum and the population say "no we don't want to be independent" will the SNP say "fair cop" and stop trying to move Scotland to independence?

While the option of giving more powers to the Scottish Parliament is on the table the population of Scotland will continue to support having the best of both worlds.

The SNP will continue to support a policy they call "Gradualism" even if Scotland votes against independence.

~
HypnoPsi

 

[HypnoPsi]

All the polls I have seen are of what Sottish people may vote for. As an Englishman, and as England is part of the united Kingdom, shouldnt I get vote?

No, anyone permanently resident in England (or anywhere else in the UK) should not get a vote on Scottish Independence.

If they want to vote on English, Welsh or even Cornish Independence respectively, that's absolutely fine.

~
HypnoPsi

 

[ponderingturtle]

What I think is interesting is that just under a third of the nation want independence. That's a sizeable proportion, and something that the unionist parties (whatever their political colours) would overlook at their peril.

Hey a third was all we needed to kick the british out.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

I thought the idea of a referendum was to get a major question such as this settled?

I thought it was to judge the opinion of the people on an issue. People's opinions can change.

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

With the EU, and European borders slowly being erased, what's the point of independence?

Isn't it better for a country to be represented within the EU than not if its going to be governed by it?

Would you say its OK for Norway to be represented in the EU by Germany or Sweden?

 

[commandlinegamer]

So when does the Kingdom of Strathclyde get it's independence?

Dunno, but some might say the Kingdom of Fife is in a world of its own.

 

[Ryokan]

Isn't it better for a country to be represented within the EU than not if its going to be governed by it?

Would you say its OK for Norway to be represented in the EU by Germany or Sweden?

Well, first off Norway isn't in the EU.

But I get your point. Now it's important. And it has been important in the past. But in the future? I think not, and since we're on that road I think a lot of people are seeing less point in independence. But I don't know, I'm just speculating. I assume that somewhere in the future, how far I don't know, we will have election circles instead of countries in the EU.

But is it really only England that represents the UK in the EU? Can't Scots run for the European parliament? Are there no Scots in the British government? I might be ignorant about how the UK government works.

 

[Architect]

I think you might want to review the reasons your own country became independent.

 

[Ryokan]

I think you might want to review the reasons your own country became independent.

There was no EU around back then.

 

[The Painter]

Support for Scottish Independence falling

Independence????? I thought Scotland was its own country already???

 

[Architect]

There was no EU around back then.

So?

 

[Ryokan]

So?

My theory is, as you can read above, that the need for independence is falling because of EU. As such, the fact that there wasn't an EU around when Norway gained its independence is important.

 

[funk de fino]

My theory is, as you can read above, that the need for independence is falling because of EU. As such, the fact that there wasn't an EU around when Norway gained its independence is important.

You need to have representation within the EU serving your own countries interests. At the moment we do not have this. Prime example is the Scottish fishing industry.

 

[Fiona]

Do you think that it is likely that Norway would vote to give up independence now, Ryokan? If it doesn't matter ?

 

[Ryokan]

Do you think that it is likely that Norway would vote to give up independence now, Ryokan? If it doesn't matter ?

Now? No.

If we still had belonged to Sweden today, I would argue, and eventually vote for, independence. But if we both had belonged to EU? Meh.

You need to have representation within the EU serving your own countries interests. At the moment we do not have this. Prime example is the Scottish fishing industry.

Well, as I asked earlier, can't Scots run for the European parliament? Are there no Scots in the British parliament?

 

[funk de fino]

Now? No.

If we still had belonged to Sweden today, I would argue, and eventually vote for, independence. But if we both had belonged to EU? Meh.

Well, as I asked earlier, can't Scots run for the European parliament? Are there no Scots in the British parliament?

The Scotsin the EU parliament are there to reprset the UK interests.

In the UK we could vote in labour MP's until the cows come home (and did) and get a non representative govt ruling us.

 

[funk de fino]

I thought the idea of a referendum was to get a major question such as this settled?

Did you really post that? I am stunned.

 

[Fiona]

Now? No.

If we still had belonged to Sweden today, I would argue, and eventually vote for, independence. But if we both had belonged to EU? Meh.



Well, as I asked earlier, can't Scots run for the European parliament? Are there no Scots in the British parliament?

I don't really understand your position Ryokan.

If you were still united with Sweden why would you vote for independence? Did norwegians not get a vote then? Was there no representation in the parliament. (if there was no parliament forgive me: I am very ignorant about the domestic politics of other countries). If there was representation then why would you bother with separation, on your reasoning?

 

[Ryokan]

If you knew the Swedes, you wouldn't want to be associated with them either!

Joking aside, Norway had its own constitution and parliament under Sweden, but without a foreign ministry. Foreign policy was dictated by Sweden. The king of Sweden could also pass laws in Norway, but the Norwegian parliament had the right to say no to it twice, but the third time it had to pass. These two would be enough to want independence.

If there was no EU, I would say it's unfair that the votes of an entire people wouldn't count on foreign policy, and also that another country could pass laws that I could not take part in.

But with both being members of EU, many of those reasons would go away. Norwegians would be able to run for the European parliament on equal footing with Swedes, and the EU would impose equal laws on our both, even though there would still be the fact that the Swedes could pass laws in Norway (Although I doubt it would be to the same extent as back in 1905, as the king is now basically a figurehead without power.). Couple that with the trend in the EU of borders being erased and moving towards a democratic federation of sorts, I would think the hunger for independence we had in 1905 would be far far less. Would it still be there? Probably some. Just like it is in Scotland.

 

[Rolfe]

In that case, would you be happy to re-unite with Sweden and participate in the EU as a region of Sweden? Do you think you would get just as good a deal as Norway would if it was a member state in its own right?

Influence in Europe is one of the main reasons for wanting independence for Scotland. Because of the qualified majority voting system, small "independent" countries are well represented and have a lot of influence at Council of Ministers level. Scottish representatives have to sit outside until the grown-ups have made their decision. The grown-ups including places like Luxembourg and Slovakia, when the subject under consideration is fisheries.

Even if we were heading for a "United States of Europe" situation, would you prefer to be one of these states, or just a small region subsumed within a larger state?

Rolfe.