Four Police Officers Killed In Washington Coffee House

[daredelvis]

What a horrible act. I am glad the guy is off the streets for good now.

How about the spotlight also shone on a low bail sentence for psychotic violent child rapist?

How unsurprising to find someone turn this into a thread about Polanski less then 72 hours after the incident (couldn't resist).

Daredelvis

 

[dudalb]

Given my low opinion of Huckabee's politics, it's tempting to pin the blame on him for this criminal being loose on the streets. It's true enough that he granted an exceptional number of commutations and that this particular individual had a poor track record, even while in prison. However, there is a very long list of recent bureaucratic screwups that have nothing at all to do with Huckabee. I think these recent events in Washington state are more deserving of scrutiny.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010392869_shootingjustice01m.html

Agreed. To let a psycho loose because of some stupid sociological theory is just as bad as letting him loose because of some stupid religiious reason.
Of course, in Politics it is often about appreance,and this looks pretty lousy for Huckabee, considering his core constuiency.

 

[Just thinking]

Wow, apparently the top suspect in this is a one Maurice Clemmons, who was pardoned 9 years ago by Arkansas governor, creationist, and 2008 GOP Presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee.

I wonder if Huckabee pardoned him because he found Jeeeebus?

I didn't make it political, the facts did.

Had Huckabee not pardoned him he'd still be in jail in Arkansas, and those 4 cops would be alive. And they had 9 kids between them.

Facts? ... just what facts are you referring to? ... the ones made up in your head?

1) Huckabee did not pardon him --- so you're wrong right out of the box. He reduced his sentence from over 100 years (for burglary and robbery without a weapon at the age of 16) to just under 50. Anyone on this forum would have thought the original penalty excessive. It also made him eligible for parole, of which Huckabee did not have any involvement in deciding the outcome.

2) He violated parole and was put back in prison, but because the prosecutor didn't file papers in a timely manor, he was released on $15,000 bail .... by two judges whom have yet to explain their actions on releasing him. He committed child rape.

3) Just where do you get off on presuming under what conditions Huckabee made his decision? Evidence?

 

[fuelair]

I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing.

He had a pistol - from one of the murdered officers- on him, he didn't stop when ordered to by another officer, he will never get to be released from prison by a possibly ill-advised official again, he will never murder anyone else. I fail to see any downside and give my full compliments to the officer who halted him appropriately.

 

[Just thinking]

Seconded!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Didn't Mike Dukakis take gas over a similar situation when he ran for President. I recall alot of Republican commercials about Willie Horton.

The hypocrites think that was OK, but when the tables are turned it somehow is not.

Personally, other than Huchkabee's finger pointing and blame spreading, I don't think this case specifically is Huck's fault. Huck played a minor role here in the past that allowed things to grow. The real culprit is the idiot judge that allowed bail. Clemmons was making threats and not quite functioning in the real world at the time. He should never have been let out.

But Huckabee's entire record here that this case has brought attention to is another matter.

 

[WildCat]

Facts? ... just what facts are you referring to? ... the ones made up in your head?

1) Huckabee did not pardon him --- so you're wrong right out of the box. He reduced his sentence from over 100 years (for burglary and robbery without a weapon at the age of 16) to just under 50. Anyone on this forum would have thought the original penalty excessive. It also made him eligible for parole, of which Huckabee did not have any involvement in deciding the outcome.

2) He violated parole and was put back in prison, but because the prosecutor didn't file papers in a timely manor, he was released on $15,000 bail .... by two judges whom have yet to explain their actions on releasing him. He committed child rape.

3) Just where do you get off on presuming under what conditions Huckabee made his decision? Evidence?

Hey, I reported a breaking story. Sorry I used the term "pardoned" instead of "commuted".

Fact is, had Huckabee not been involved the POS would still be rotting in an Arkansas jail, 4 police officers would still be alive and a 13 year old child wouldn't have been raped.

And don't try to pretend that Huckabee has no influence on the parole board whose members he appointed.

 

[Just thinking]

Hey, I reported a breaking story. Sorry I used the term "pardoned" instead of "commuted".

Well, there's a huge difference ... plus you used the term more than once and emphasized it as fact.

Fact is, had Huckabee not been involved the POS would still be rotting in an Arkansas jail, 4 police officers would still be alive and a 13 year old child wouldn't have been raped.

Quite right ... and Huckabee would be viewed as a racist governor seeing to it that some poor black kid rots in prison on a 108 year sentence where whites get less than ten for similar (or worse) crimes. Tell me ... just what exactly did Huckabee do that was so wrong at the time? (Let me guess ... he forgot to turn on his crystal ball which would have shown the murder of 4 police officers and the child rape years down the road.)

And don't try to pretend that Huckabee has no influence on the parole board whose members he appointed.

Wow ... you've got plenty of evidence for this assertion, right? (PS -- those appointments were his job. You want him to not do his job? Plus the state senate must confirm each one.) I'm sure you'll supply it along with just what it was he did that was so wrong at the time. And I suppose he also had influence on the two judges that let him out of prison (on parole violation) for $15,000 bail on child rape charges?

I wonder just what everyone here would be saying if somehow it was Senator Obama at the time who somehow managed to get a similar sentence on a similar case altered through clemency and then watched it turn out like this years later. So many here would be falling all over themselves making identical cases I've presented to make it clear that he had no way of knowing that it would end like this --- and that he acted properly at the time.

 

[WildCat]

Quite right ... and Huckabee would be viewed as a racist governor seeing to it that some poor black kid rots in prison on a 108 year sentence where whites get less than ten for similar (or worse) crimes.

They do? Go ahead, show me the white kid who got 10 years after bringing a gun to school, a robbery in which he said he had a gun and beat the female victim, threatened the judge at the trial, attacked a deputy in the courtroom by throwing a hinge at him and attempting to take his gun. and also robbed a policeman's house of $6,500 of loot including a gun.

But go right ahead and try to frame it as just "burglary and robbery without a weapon".

Tell me ... just what exactly did Huckabee do that was so wrong at the time?

Ignored his history of violence and instead focused on his claim he "came from a good Christian home".

Wow ... you've got plenty of evidence for this assertion, right? (PS -- those appointments were his job. You want him to not do his job? Plus the state senate must confirm each one.) I'm sure you'll supply it along with just what it was he did that was so wrong at the time.

Oh please. Arkansas government is as incestuous as Illinois' is. That parole board knows they arte there to do the governor's bidding, and then another government job awaits when their term is done.

And I suppose he also had influence on the two judges that let him out of prison (on parole violation) for $15,000 bail on child rape charges?

I don't know what their problem is either, but if they think they have a political career I can assure them it's just as screwed as Huckabee's is.

I wonder just what everyone here would be saying if somehow it was Senator Obama at the time who somehow managed to get a similar sentence on a similar case altered through clemency and then watched it turn out like this years later. So many here would be falling all over themselves making identical cases I've presented to make it clear that he had no way of knowing that it would end like this --- and that he acted properly at the time.

Yeah, who could predict paving the way for a violent criminal's release based solely on religious beliefs could turn out bad? You'd have to be psychic to see that coming!

 

[ponderingturtle]

Facts? ... just what facts are you referring to? ... the ones made up in your head?

1) Huckabee did not pardon him --- so you're wrong right out of the box. He reduced his sentence from over 100 years (for burglary and robbery without a weapon at the age of 16) to just under 50. Anyone on this forum would have thought the original penalty excessive. It also made him eligible for parole, of which Huckabee did not have any involvement in deciding the outcome.

I am just kind of wondering how he got sentanced to multiple year sentances about 6 times in 6 months. I mean why did they give him bail the after the second or third time he was arrested and charged with more felonies while out on bail?

 

[WildCat]

Wow ... you've got plenty of evidence for this assertion, right? (PS -- those appointments were his job. You want him to not do his job? Plus the state senate must confirm each one.) I'm sure you'll supply it along with just what it was he did that was so wrong at the time.

We don't know exactly what went down in the Clemmons case yet, but we do know that Huckabee did pressure at least 2 parole board members in the Dumond case:

Two members of the state parole board said Huckabee pressured them to show DuMond mercy

http://durangoherald.com/sections/N...seek_gunman_who_allegedly_shot_four_officers/

So yes, Huckabee does have a track record of putting pressure on parole board members. And pressure from the man who gave you your job and can also give you other jobs is not insignificant.

Also from that article:

Between 1989 and 1998, Clemmons broke prison rules more than two dozen times – sometimes violently, said state prison system spokeswoman Dina Tyler.

This stinks to high heaven, actions like that generally keep you from getting paroled. Unless, of course, you have the governor pressuring the parole board.

 

[WildCat]

And this illustrates quite well how "seriously" Huckabee treated his clemency decisions. This is his actual response to Prosecutor Robert Herzfeld's objection to one of his pardons:

4 cops now dead? LOL!

 

[Darth Rotor]

And this illustrates quite well how "seriously" Huckabee treated his clemency decisions. This is his actual response to Prosecutor Robert Herzfeld's objection to one of his pardons:

[qimg]http://home.mindspring.com/%7Ea.lo/letter.gif[/qimg]

4 cops now dead? LOL!

The governor read you letter?

Do you smell something slightly "not quite genuine" about this letter? I have a hard time believing that a no kidding lawyer who advises a governor writes such a memo.

"I wish you success as you cut down on caffeine consumption."

No flags, Wildcat?

DR

 

[WildCat]

The governor read you letter?

Do you smell something slightly "not quite genuine" about this letter? I have a hard time believing that a no kidding lawyer who advises a governor writes such a memo.

"I wish you success as you cut down on caffeine consumption."

No flags, Wildcat?

DR

AFAIK it's genuine. Note that that article is from 2004, untainted by the politics of either his 2008 Presidential run and the current situation. And as far as I know it's a reputable Arkansas local tri-county newspaper. And it names names, and Herzfeld hasn't denied it, nor has Cox.

 

[Bill Thompson]

I'd say the issue was more about bringing attention to Huckabee's clemency granting. The pattern is the issue, not just Clemmons directly. Because of the pattern, and the bad luck as you put it, Huckabee will be tagged as misjudging this murderer.

From what I have read he considered Clemmons youth. So we should point our finger at Huckabee for not having a crystal ball like liberals do? Wasn't Willie Horton a fault on the Democratic side? How long did the libs cry fowl over that?

It is so sad that 9 kids now are missing one of their parents and yet people seem to have the capacity to make this a political issue. I can't see how people can do that. But somehow they do.

Huckabee was a popular governor. So I sense that the left just can't wait to find SOMEthing to make him loose any potential presidentail election. Wait, he is a creationists too! Somehow that will also make him a bad president because he would flunk Biology.

 

[patchbunny]

Ok, so the police are charging two of the people people who assisted Clemmons with 'rendering criminal assistance', with the claim that they provided medical aid, housing, money, and were trying to get him out of the state. I would have thought this would qualify as 'accessory after the fact', or am I watching too much Law & Order?

I also note the police state they have who they believe is the getaway driver in custody. That's most interesting.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Ok, so the police are charging two of the people people who assisted Clemmons with 'rendering criminal assistance', with the claim that they provided medical aid, housing, money, and were trying to get him out of the state. I would have thought this would qualify as 'accessory after the fact', or am I watching too much Law & Order?

I also note the police state they have who they believe is the getaway driver in custody. That's most interesting.

Clemmons was violent, a pervert and a murder who thought that the world was full of baby eating zombies. He was known for rambling on incoherently about nonsense. He had a history of mental illness and evil behavior. But he seemed to have a lot of family support.

Does he remind you of any previous New England Democratic senators?

I am just asking.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From what I have read he considered Clemmons youth. So we should point our finger at Huckabee for not having a crystal ball like liberals do? Wasn't Willie Horton a fault on the Democratic side? How long did the libs cry fowl over that?....

I think I was pretty clear here and you seem to have not read what I wrote.

How about re-reading it and trying again: Personally, other than Huchkabee's finger pointing and blame spreading, I don't think this case specifically is Huck's fault. Huck played a minor role here in the past that allowed things to grow. The real culprit is the idiot judge that allowed bail.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The governor read you letter?

Do you smell something slightly "not quite genuine" about this letter? I have a hard time believing that a no kidding lawyer who advises a governor writes such a memo.

"I wish you success as you cut down on caffeine consumption."

No flags, Wildcat?

DR

It is sometimes hard to verify these things when the majority of the sources are just blog after blog that repeated the original source and the original source is a small time paper that we don't know the credibility of.

I did, however, find this which suggests there is enough credibility for an interviewer to inquire about the letter to the recipient:

Huckabee answers questions surrounding clemency policy

Huckabee's response came three days later, in the form of three lined letter from his deputy legal counsel Cory Cox. It read: "The governor read your letter and laughed out loud. He wanted me to respond to you. I wish you success as you cut down on your caffeine consumption."

Herzfeld is a judge now and tells FOX16 News it wouldn't be appropriate in his current job to talk about the letter.

 

[Bill Thompson]

I think I was pretty clear here and you seem to have not read what I wrote.

How about re-reading it and trying again: Personally, other than Huchkabee's finger pointing and blame spreading, I don't think this case specifically is Huck's fault. Huck played a minor role here in the past that allowed things to grow. The real culprit is the idiot judge that allowed bail.

Take it easy.

I heard someone on the news say that this criminal basically fell through the cracks. You can also say the the system in Seattle also failed where he was free on bail after raping a kid.