Moderated Bigfoot- Anybody Seen one?

[Vortigern99]

Right. I think "bigfoot" is studied, though, based on things I have read. It seems that there are quite a few people who really do devote a big part of their lives to "bigfoot", including spending a lot of money on "expeditions".

Of course, the phenomenon of bigfoot sightings is studied, as is the subculture surrounding those sightings, and the various pieces of information that have been put forward as evidence. But the animal itself is not and, as of this afternoon, cannot be studied, since we have no type specimen, no scat, no tissue, no bones, no fossil remains. Once data of this kind is forthcoming, I for one will be happy to say I've been mistaken, congratulate the proponents and witnesses, and then get on with the business of studying what must a fascinating animal.

The most interesting thread on the other forum to me was the one about hallucinating while driving. I know that happens. People, especially driving long distances, can do weird things. I've been a passenger in a car before where the driver fell asleep...and didn't even realize he had fallen asleep. That was even a very short drive, maybe a half hour! Clearly it is a very serious issue, and I have been pleased to see, in newer cars, the instrument panels being moved to the middle instead of being right in front of the driver's eyes. It seems reasonable to me that could very well make a difference in safer driving, and is much easier on the eyes during night driving...in my opinion, anyway.

Exactly, which is why hypnagogic hallucination is a more probable explanation for your sighting than that an undiscovered primate is roaming North America in numbers great enough to viably reproduce yet not great enough to leave remains.

 

[WGBH]

Please be aware that I came to these forums a bigfoot believer, as did Kitikaze and others. Our open-mindedness to the data and evidence (or lack thereof) have convinced us otherwise. We did not come here with an a priori opinion, asserting that "you will not change my mind!"; instead, we investigated the facts and made our conclusions based on those facts.

At least you came into this by your own choice. I never asked for or wanted this. The subject never interested me in the slightest. I had no choice. I tried to deny and ignore what I saw for 25 years. Much to my frustration, I understand the lack of evidence regarding the existence of this animal.

Your facts are different then mine. I saw one. I heard one. I smelled one. Bigfoot are a reality to me. It was not a hallucination, it was not a sleep disorder, it was not a bear. I will not stop trying.

I realize that it is possible I will never get my answers. Hell, it is likely I will not. It would be easy to say that I hallucinated it all. It would also be lying to myself. I am not a liar to myself or anyone.

 

[Vortigern99]

But how can you be so certain that you did not hallucinate the animal? If you've looked into hallucinatory phenomena, then you're aware that sight, sound, smell and even touch can be hallucinated in a way that, in the moment, is indistinguishable from reality. You're refusing to consider that you experienced a temporary mental state shared by large numbers of sane, healthy human beings throughout history. Why?

 

[WGBH]

But how can you be so certain that you did not hallucinate the animal? If you've looked into hallucinatory phenomena, then you're aware that sight, sound, smell and even touch can be hallucinated in a way that, in the moment, is indistinguishable from reality. You're refusing to consider that you experienced a temporary mental state shared by large numbers of sane, healthy human beings throughout history. Why?

I guess the same reason you refuse to believe me. I am stubborn. I am just handicapped by proof.

 

[kitakaze]

I saw one. I heard one. I smelled one. Bigfoot are a reality to me.

What was the distance of the Bigfoot you smelled, again?

How exactly is it that you think massive, stinky bipedal mammals moving about in human civilization areas of the Eastern Seaboard elude being a known species?

What is it that you think made you start to spasm and go in a fetal position?

 

[Vortigern99]

I guess the same reason you refuse to believe me. I am stubborn. I am just handicapped by proof.

That's no answer. I "refuse" to believe you not because I'm stubborn, but because there is no evidence of this animal, and because once we begin to analyze the likelihood of a giant odiferous primate roaming one of the most populated continents on the planet, while obtaining 8000+ calories per diem in winter, in numbers sufficient to sustain a viable breeding population, all while somehow avoiding unambiguous photography and failing to leave any scat or mortal remains, we see how the logic of your "proof" breaks down to non-existence.

 

[WGBH]

What was the distance of the Bigfoot you smelled, again?

How exactly is it that you think massive, stinky bipedal mammals moving about in human civilization areas of the Eastern Seaboard elude being a known species?

What is it that you think made you start to spasm and go in a fetal position?

The odor was the first thing I experienced. Well before I actually had the sighting. I could smell it for a few days in my nose. The animal I witnessed was less than 50 yards away. That is as specific as I can get for distance.

I have no idea how. The area was sparsely populated in 1982. Looking at a google map now is not the same. I am not saying there were not people around, but there were not many.

I have no idea what caused me to feel dizzy, ill and spasm. All I hear are theories. I do know it was not my imagination.

 

[WGBH]

That's no answer. I "refuse" to believe you not because I'm stubborn, but because there is no evidence of this animal, and because once we begin to analyze the likelihood of a giant odiferous primate roaming one of the most populated continents on the planet, while obtaining 8000+ calories per diem in winter, in numbers sufficient to sustain a viable breeding population, all while somehow avoiding unambiguous photography and failing to leave any scat or mortal remains, we see how the logic of your "proof" breaks down to non-existence.

Lots of unlikely things exist. It is your logic that they do not exist. Nothing wrong with that logic. I operate under the logic that I witnessed what I saw.

 

[kitakaze]

Lots of unlikely things exist. It is your logic that they do not exist. Nothing wrong with that logic. I operate under the logic that I witnessed what I saw.

John, what logic do you operate under about this woman?

 

[WGBH]

John, what logic do you operate under about this woman?

I am not familiar with this woman. I have no knowledge or interest in what she is speaking about.

 

[kitakaze]

The odor was the first thing I experienced. Well before I actually had the sighting. I could smell it for a few days in my nose. The animal I witnessed was less than 50 yards away. That is as specific as I can get for distance.

A power stink from a distance that got all up in your nose for a few days. That is some powerful stuff. Did everybody on the car ride home just think you had the toots or what? Actually, that sounds much more like a psychological phenomenon where people perceive a persistent odour in their nose that is not there.

I have no idea how. The area was sparsely populated in 1982. Looking at a google map now is not the same. I am not saying there were not people around, but there were not many.

Actually, yes, there were many people around there in 1982. The Pasquotank River area has been an area of human habitation for a long time now. Elizabeth City didn't pop up in 1995. Giant 9x6 ft monster apes hanging around in this vicinity are not going to be unknown to science.

I have no idea what caused me to feel dizzy, ill and spasm. All I hear are theories. I do know it was not my imagination.

Yeah, that sucks that you felt what you perceived to feel as an electric show that immobilized you, followed by spasms and slumping into a fetal positions, and then feeling really groggy. I suppose it was the infrasound and nothing neurological in origin.

 

[kitakaze]

I am not familiar with this woman. I have no knowledge or interest in what she is speaking about.

Try to muster it up. She's lucid, articulate, and describes in great detail what she claims to have seen. She is convinced of it. Trust me, it's relevant. I'm worried about this. Apparently not only are there 9x6 ft monster apes poking about putting the stink on people and giving them infra-blasts, there are also Reptoids out there getting into the who knows what. Why didn't she see a Reptoid, John?

 

[WGBH]

Try to muster it up. She's lucid, articulate, and describes in great detail what she claims to have seen. She is convinced of it. Trust me, it's relevant. I'm worried about this. Apparently not only are there 9x6 ft monster apes poking about putting the stink on people and giving them infra-blasts, there are also Reptoids out there getting into the who knows what. Why didn't she see a Reptoid, John?

Sorry you worry about such things. I am here if you need to talk to someone.

 

[kitakaze]

Sorry you worry about such things. I am here if you need to talk to someone.

Great, let's discuss the subject. You say you saw a giant 9x6 ft monster Bigfoot in 1982 in the Pasquotank River area of North Carolina. That lady says she saw Reptoids. You are a lucid individual who is convinced of what you say you saw and so is she. What are we to do with this? Why should we consider it more plausible that you saw Bigfoot than her seeing Reptoids? People see things that are not there. People have faulty memories. People convince themselves of fantasies.

Witnesses are talking about Reptoids. What is up with that?

 

[WGBH]

Great, let's discuss the subject. You say you saw a giant 9x6 ft monster Bigfoot in 1982 in the Pasquotank River area of North Carolina. That lady says she saw Reptoids. You are a lucid individual who is convinced of what you say you saw and so is she. What are we to do with this? Why should we consider it more plausible that you saw Bigfoot than her seeing Reptoids? People see things that are not there. People have faulty memories. People convince themselves of fantasies.

Witnesses are talking about Reptoids. What is up with that?

Great, let's discuss the subject. You say you saw a giant 9x6 ft monster Bigfoot in 1982 in the Pasquotank River area of North Carolina.

Correct

That lady says she saw Reptoids.
OK


You are a lucid individual who is convinced of what you say you saw and so is she. What are we to do with this? Why should we consider it more plausible that you saw Bigfoot than her seeing Reptoids?

Last I checked this thread was not titled Reptoids (whatever that means) anyone seen one? I do not know enough about the woman or the topic to make a comment about it.

People see things that are not there. People have faulty memories. People convince themselves of fantasies.

I am aware that people do these things.

Witnesses are talking about Reptoids. What is up with that?

I have no clue what it is about, but if it troubles you we can start a Reptoid thread and discuss it.

 

[kitakaze]

I've located the area where Sugar says that she and her husband saw a Bigfoot. She said she was travelling towards Marianna in Lee County, Arkansas on Route 79 and had just passed a prison. The jail was the East Arkansas Regional Unit. You can see the area at the following link...

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=East Arkansas Regional Unit &um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Whatever sugar saw was somewhere there between EARU and Marianna running on Route 79. The area has very few small pockets of wooded area, is largely agricultural, and surrounded by human civilization. How do we not have a type specimen for a massive animal that runs down a highway in Lee County, Arkansas?

 

[kitakaze]

Last I checked this thread was not titled Reptoids (whatever that means) anyone seen one? I do not know enough about the woman or the topic to make a comment about it.

Discussing the woman's claim of seeing Reptoids in relation to your claim of seeing Bigfoot is not off topic. I am showing you that people can convince themselves of seeing things that we know do not exist. Reptoids are no less plausible than Bigfoot. Lots of people say they see Reptoids. That woman could be here insisting that she is not mistaken and did in fact see a Reptoid. Do you think Reptoids exist?

Why should anyone think you saw a real Bigfoot over having something nuerological happen when you say you felt a sensation like an electric shock, couldn't move, had spasms, went to the floor in a fetal position, felt then really groggy, heard footsteps unassociated to what you after saw, and had a weird smell in your nose for days that nobody else could smell? Wow, that's got neurological incident all over it. What rules out a false memory?

 

[154]

I appreciate your compliment, 154. In return, I would offer one to both Vort and WP...

I appreciate and consider your opinion of them then to their benefit.

As for the MM reference, I can only assume you are referring to when Bigfoot INC conglomerate Matthew Moneymaker vowed to sue me to next Tuesday. Moneymaker hates me because I expose him as a sheister and would often talk about him and his weiner Bigfoot enthusiast pals scamming people. I don't believe for a second that Moneymaker actually believes Bigfoot exists. If you want to see more Moneymaker/kitakaze controversy, which I think was relatively minor, just google "Moneymaker kitakaze". It's not that exciting, I think, and I fear legal action from pretend-a-lawyer Moneymaker about as much as I fear Bigfoot incidences while camping.

Yeah, I remember somewhere reading that incident shortly afterwards and thinking your opinion was very capable and well-spoken and I was hoping to see a more protracted dialogue. I'll find it again.

It's unfortunate that you've found your experience with skeptical analysis and critical thinking on a skeptic message board so unpleasant.

It's unfortunate that you fancy yourself (and WP?) the very embodiment of skeptical analysis and critical thinking, because in that regard, it was only in you that I was disappointed. You see, I'm critical of your skeptical analysis also, and am capable of drawing my own conclusions even if they run contrary to the only ones you perceive as acceptable- your own, but aknowledge your jousting ability. Far from unpleasant, it's my pleasure. Perhaps I'm that masochist?

You may wish to consider, in the future, the potential consequences of posting your opinion that an undiscovered primate, for which there is not a shred of hard evidence, is absolutely, unquestionably real, on a skeptic message board.

It's already been considered... thanks though...

I further recommend some reading on the subject of the scientific method and the process of critical thought. Sagan's Demon-Haunted World is a good start. Otherwise you're likely to go through life accepting any ludicrous claim that comes your way, such as that unknown phenomena beyond the workings of the natural world are responsible for bovine decomposition.

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove personal remarks.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[kitakaze]

I appreciate and consider your opinion of them then to their benefit.

Yeah, I remember somewhere reading that incident shortly afterwards and thinking your opinion was very capable and well-spoken and I was hoping to see a more protracted dialogue. I'll find it again.

I'm losing track of my Bigfoot sightings. 154, can you go back to post #1420 and give me some specifics to look into regarding your sighting?

Moneymaker has an account here but I think he'll be too busy making money to stop by anytime soon with no less than 100 BFRO expeditions for 2010 and a TV series going. There's a lot of people to sucker...

2010 Expeditions for Alumni Only

 

[Skeptical Greg]

The BFRO has introduced over 4,000 new people to bigfoot field research over the past five years -- more than enough people for local organizers to work with, and become more familiar with.