Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[RandFan]

Of what, my supposition?!

Yes.

I don't know, is there?

No.

 

[Cainkane1]

I dislike porn because when the girl is at her prettiest and cutest she hasn't been around enogh to make an adult decision.

 

[quadraginta]

I dislike porn because when the girl is at her prettiest and cutest she hasn't been around enogh to make an adult decision.

That may be a comment on your taste in women, but it isn't very clear why that is a comment about what's wrong with porn.

 

[RandFan]

[dictionary.com]

? You are attacking my source? Really? You didn't want to go with you were only joking?

Remember, you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Princeton: a branch of applied mathematics concerned with the collection and interpretation of quantitative data and the use of probability theory to

PBS: the mathematics of collecting and analyzing data to draw conclusions and make predictions.

Clifnotes: for mutually exclusive random events, the chance of at least one of them occurring is the sum of their individual probabilities.

Statistics & Probability: The facts and figures that are collected and examined for information on a given subject are statistics. Probability is the likelihood of something happening or being true.

Introduction to Probability and Statistics: Most experimental searches for paranormal phenomena are statistical in nature. A subject repeatedly attempts a task with a known probability of success due to chance, then the number of actual successes is compared to the chance expectation.

Probability theory: As a mathematical foundation for Statistics, probability theory is essential to many human activities that involve quantitative analysis of large sets of data.

So, I've millions of sources. How many do you want before you agree that the statement "Probability has absolutely nothing to do with statistics." is silly and absurd?

 

[Southwind17]

Does "your definition" (your opinion, let's not hide behind word here) ...

No. It's a proposed definition that either works or doesn't, to varying degrees. It has absolutely nothing to do with "opinion".

... include a comic book in which a ten year old girl is being raped and it's in there to cause anger in the viewer and a justification when the hero defeats the raper?

Tell me what you think, and why. I'll then tell you whether I agree or disagree, and why.

Does "your definition" (again, your opinion) ...

Again, no.

... include The Simpson's movie, where child nudity was a subject of humor? Could a potential child molester look at that and get aroused enough to molest a child? If so, should The Simpson's move be banned or that scene cut out?

Again, tell me what you think, and why. I'll then tell you whether I agree or disagree, and why.

Does "your definition" again your opinion ...

Again, no.

... include an artist who makes a picture, not using any real life people as models, that portrays a nude child in a provocative position, not to arouse, but to have the view decide whether it's arousing or not?

Again, tell me what you think, and why. I'll then tell you whether I agree or disagree, and why.

And even if "your definition" is a generally accepted one, who decides?

The law makers.

Everyone is going to interpret a picture differently. Now I know some of them have an obvious intent, but not all.

I think most of them will probably have an "obvious intent", or there would be little point in producing them!

What I meant to say was this: my defense of the Freedom of Speech is based on logic and reasoning. I have, as well as RandFan and some others on this thread, shown the logic and reasoning behind this defense. If you have missed it, I suggest you read back.

Seriously, I'm really not sure what your "logic and reasoning" are. Perhaps you could summarize, as I did recently for my position on VCP.

Your definition (opinion) ...

Again, no.

... is incomplete at best.

Please explain.

Also, you ascribe the same ban to fantasy rape too. When does it end?

Please explain. What, exactly, do you believe the definition includes that could be referred to as "fantasy rape".

I've said before, there are people who feel that "marshmallow porn" has the same power to make a person molest a child and want even "marshmallow porn" banned because it falls under THEIR definition. Are they right? If not, why is your definition right and theirs wrong? Where is the line drawn? Who draws it?

I have no idea, and am not interested, in what their definitions are. You know what mine is. Either comment on it, specifically, or forever keep thou trap shut.

You are still lumping the many with the all. Here is your logic: Since I don't know what Manga is, but since some contains VCP then all Manga should be banned on the fact that it may be viewed by someone who may be a potential child molester, and that viewer may decide to molest a child because the Manga may give that potential child molester viewer the idea it's okay to molest a child

Please show where I claimed that all manga, indeed any manga, should be banned.

So even though you say many, all are inclusive.

 

[Southwind17]

Of that law, no. Of murder? most likely. That's my point, you know it, stop screaming "but it's illegal". We are not disputing that. We are debating why the law is there and if it makes sense.

No comment

Of course not. I had a point you couldn't rebut.

No comment.

It's a fair question because you said it yourself: Who are the politicians? PEOPLE are. Do they have any special powers? No. You've said that yourself. Now since people make the laws, people can, without breaking them, dispute them in a forum such as this.

No comment.

And "government" is not the answer. That is a cop out. Just because it's the law doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Obey it, yes. Agree with it, no. That's why laws get changed, they get scrutinized, they are debated, they are added and taken away.

No comment.

Do you believe that the law is absolute and someone with more powers or intelligence than you is always right?

What do you mean by "absolute"? As to the second question - no.

 

[RandFan]

• Children are statistically likely to be harmed by VCP (there is a perceived threat).
• VCP is disgusting and no one should defend it.
• Our concern for children should be greater than any concern of loss of freedom for perverts.

It's not much of a case but ok.

Still standing.

 

[Southwind17]

Yes.

Check this out then tell me what sort of evidence you have in mind.

No.

Very good - well done.

 

[Southwind17]

So, I've millions of sources. How many do you want before you agree that the statement "Probability has absolutely nothing to do with statistics." is silly and absurd?

Er ... just one that you posted should do:

Statistics & Probability: The facts and figures that are collected and examined for information on a given subject are statistics. Probability is the likelihood of something happening or being true.

That sure reads like two mutually exclusive definitions!

 

[RandFan]

Very good - well done.

Says the man who uses "no comment" again and again. Says the man who replies with rhetoric and silliness to arguments made.

 

[Southwind17]

Still standing.

I there was I thinking we'd clarified:

Let's see:

• Children are statistically likely to be harmed by VCP (there is a perceived threat).
• VCP is disgusting and no one should defend it.
• Our concern for children should be greater than any concern of loss of freedom for perverts.

I never claimed anything based on statistics. The term I used was "reasonable to suppose".
Whilst I agree with your second point it has absolutely no relevance to my argument.
I agree with your third bullet if you replace "loss of freedom for perverts" with "loss of freedom of the right to acquire VCPspeech for child molesters".

You've also overlooked:

• VCP (by my definition) has only one purpose - to sexually arouse people with a morbid interest in children, and
• We know (we have compelling evidence!) that many people lose judgement when sexually aroused to the extent that they will risk just about any foreseeable consequences in return for satisfying their immediate sexual desire.

 

[Southwind17]

Says the man who uses "no comment" again and again. Says the man who replies with rhetoric and silliness to arguments made.

 

[RandFan]

Er ... just one that you posted should do:

That sure reads like two mutually exclusive definitions!

Oh, no question. I never said that statistics and probability were the very same thing. I said, and I quote: "Children are statistically likely".

However, having actually taken a course in statistics and given that I write software for statistical probability analysis I can safely say that"

"Statistically likely" and "probability" ARE THE SAME THING.

Now. What did you say?

Probability has absolutely nothing to do with statistics.

This is absurd. I can show tens of millions of sources.

Statistical probability

Statistical probability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Introduction to Probability and Statistics

Why 14,000,000 links, dictionary definitions, etc., etc.. if the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other?

 

[RandFan]

1. Children are statistically likely to be harmed by VCP (there is a perceived threat).
2. VCP is disgusting AND HAS ONLY ONE PURPOSE TO SEXUALLY AROUND PEOPLE WITH A MORBID INTEREST IN CHILDREN and no one should defend it.
3. Our concern for children should be greater than any concern of loss of freedom for perverts.
4. [there is evidence that] Many people lose judgement when sexually aroused to the extent that they will risk just about any foreseeable consequences in return for satisfying their immediate sexual desire.

Where is this evidence for #4?

 

[RandFan]

You seriously need to look in the mirror. You engage in personal attack and I note it and then you want to accuse me of pettiness.

 

[quadraginta]

probability

1. the quality or fact of being probable.

[dictionary.com]

? You are attacking my source? Really? You didn't want to go with you were only joking?

Remember, you said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

Princeton: a branch of applied mathematics concerned with the collection and interpretation of quantitative data and the use of probability theory to

PBS: the mathematics of collecting and analyzing data to draw conclusions and make predictions.

Clifnotes: for mutually exclusive random events, the chance of at least one of them occurring is the sum of their individual probabilities.

Statistics & Probability: The facts and figures that are collected and examined for information on a given subject are statistics. Probability is the likelihood of something happening or being true.

Introduction to Probability and Statistics: Most experimental searches for paranormal phenomena are statistical in nature. A subject repeatedly attempts a task with a known probability of success due to chance, then the number of actual successes is compared to the chance expectation.

Probability theory: As a mathematical foundation for Statistics, probability theory is essential to many human activities that involve quantitative analysis of large sets of data.

So, I've millions of sources. How many do you want before you agree that the statement "Probability has absolutely nothing to do with statistics." is silly and absurd?

He wasn't even particularly happy with his source. He left out this part.

2. a strong likelihood or chance of something: The probability of the book's success makes us optimistic.

3. a probable event, circumstance, etc.: Our going to China is a probability.

4. Statistics.

a. the relative possibility that an event will occur, as expressed by the ratio of the number of actual occurrences to the total number of possible occurrences.

b. the relative frequency with which an event occurs or is likely to occur.​

I expect that the last one was especially inconvenient.

I suppose we can add 'quote mining' and 'cherry picking' to his other rhetorical talents. He's not very good at it though. No wonder he shies away from providing evidence to support his assertions.

 

[Southwind17]

"Statistically likely" and "probability" ARE THE SAME THING.

I think you mean "statistically likely" and "probably" are the same thing, but the bottom line is they're not. They amount to the same thing. But they're not the same. The process by which one concludes that an event is statistically likely is different from that by which one concludes that it's probable.

 

[RandFan]

They amount to the same thing.

So will you agree that your statement is wrong?

They amount to the same thing. But they're not the same. The process by which one concludes that an event is statistically likely is different from that by which one concludes that it's probable.

Please to give an example?

 

[Belz...]

[dictionary.com]

Isn't probability usually determined by statistics ?

 

[Belz...]

Tell me what you think, and why. I'll then tell you whether I agree or disagree, and why.

Seriously, Wind, wouldn't you rather answer his question clearly rather than say something like this and leave things in a state of confusion ?

I'm starting to think that your accusations as to my misunderstandings of your position were just a way to not admit that you are being intentionally unclear.