A 15 year old girl killed a nine year old girl to see what it was like.

[Cainkane1]

Nathan Leopold, of Leopold and Loeb fame, wrote a memoir that I read some time ago. He claimed that he was no longer what he was when they killed Bobby Franks. He said it took about ten years for him to really realize the ramifications of what he had done and how evil it was.

He may have been smart but the detectives were smarter. He also should have used his IQ when he was picking gay lovers. The one who stabbed him to death definitely wasn't the right guy.

 

[Cainkane1]

No, although frankly who cares? Push the POS off a cliff and continue helping Darwin out. Good grief.

Is anyone else absolutely sick to death of this rights of the criminal gone amok BS?

Darwin has already been served. This girl will never have a baby unless an extraordinary set of circumstances comes along. I can't imagine a guard stupid enough to fool with her. I work with female detainees myself but I would never touuch one of them. Not even the pretty ones.

 

[Cicero]

He may have been smart but the detectives were smarter. He also should have used his IQ when he was picking gay lovers. The one who stabbed him to death definitely wasn't the right guy.

Not only that. In the movie "Compulsion," they show Leopold as the one picking up his jacket at the crime scene when his eyeglasses fall out. This is supposed to clue in the uninformed that he subconsciously wanted to be caught. It was Loeb who picked up Leopold's jacket off the ground when the glasses fell out, and he had no clue that his buddy's glasses were in the jacket pocket.

 

[geni]

15 years old?

Under US law:

She can't vote
Can't drink
Is below the age of general consent
Various limits on work she can do
Is required to be in some form of education.
Depending on the state will have issues agreeing to contracts

US laws as created by elected representatives do not view her as an adult so it would be unreasonable for them to view her as an adult in this case.

 

[king catfish]

It's also a question of whether society will allow her to rehabilitate, or just throw her into the anarchy of an American prison.

An interesting sidenote, if this was in Norway, she'd be prosecuted at the fullest extent of the law. Norwegian law says that at 15 or above, you're held accountable for any crime you may do just like anyone else. If you're below 15, though, you're not held responsible for any crime at all.

Is gun safety taught in Norway? I ask because your finger is STILL in the triggerguard in that vanity avatar of yours. Frankly, I'd be embarrassed.

 

[Dragoonster]

15 years old?

Under US law:

She can't vote
Can't drink
Is below the age of general consent
Various limits on work she can do
Is required to be in some form of education.
Depending on the state will have issues agreeing to contracts

US laws as created by elected representatives do not view her as an adult so it would be unreasonable for them to view her as an adult in this case.

It would be inconsistent. Personally I don't think any age-based laws are reasonable, as they're based on generalizations and nearly all have exceptional cases who shouldn't be subject to them.

 

[Cicero]

15 years old?

Under US law:

She can't vote
Can't drink
Is below the age of general consent
Various limits on work she can do
Is required to be in some form of education.
Depending on the state will have issues agreeing to contracts

US laws as created by elected representatives do not view her as an adult so it would be unreasonable for them to view her as an adult in this case.

What are the penalties for drinking under age, not attending school, working in a job where she is under age, and having sex? Is there an age where premeditated murder becomes legal?

The penalties for premeditated murder should be the same for anyone old enough to understand the consequence of their actions. She meets that standard.

 

[LibraryLady]

Please. He had a genius I.Q. at the time of the murder. He also never waivered from his love for his partner in crime, Loeb, long after he came to this ephiphany. Just like everything else about Leopold, this is also for the birds. Too bad Leopold didn't reach this ephiphany in the same way Leob did, at the end of a shiv while in prison.

You'll notice I used the word "claimed." The autobiography is very self serving as you can imagine.

He may have been smart but the detectives were smarter. He also should have used his IQ when he was picking gay lovers. The one who stabbed him to death definitely wasn't the right guy.

It was the other, Loeb, who was stabbed to death by an inmate he made a pass at.

Not only that. In the movie "Compulsion," they show Leopold as the one picking up his jacket at the crime scene when his eyeglasses fall out. This is supposed to clue in the uninformed that he subconsciously wanted to be caught. It was Loeb who picked up Leopold's jacket off the ground when the glasses fell out, and he had no clue that his buddy's glasses were in the jacket pocket.

Good movie, anyway, even though they give the Darrow character a pious line at the end which he would have hated. The book was written by someone who actually knew the two boys.

 

[LibraryLady]

Here is another case of very young girls committing murder, actually matricide for one of them. They were released after five years and went on to be functioning members of society. Indeed, one went on to be a well-known author.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, because I think it is so dependent upon the nature of the killer. Sociopaths are not able to be rehabilitated and often fool people into thinking they are. Under these circumstances they should not be released.

 

[Cainkane1]

Here is another case of very young girls committing murder, actually matricide for one of them. They were released after five years and went on to be functioning members of society. Indeed, one went on to be a well-known author.

I'm not taking sides on this debate, because I think it is so dependent upon the nature of the killer. Sociopaths are not able to be rehabilitated and often fool people into thinking they are. Under these circumstances they should not be released.

You're a nice lady. I admire your posts and ideas greatly.

One has to ask themselves this question however. When a crime as serious and unprovoked as this happens does the murderer "deserve" to be rehabilitated? Part of the motive for punishment in the first place is to deter other crimes. Releasing two murderers from prison after only five years doesn't fit the crime. I'm glad they were rehabilitated but is that enough punishment?

There was a murderer named Abbot who wrote "In The Belly of the Beast" who was released from prison only to kill again.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Well, Norway has gone the exactly opposite route when it comes to justice, we have very low sentences (Maximum prison sentence is 21 years.) and focus greatly on rehabilitation over anything else.

Norway has one of the world's lowest crime and murder rates.

Interesting. How long ago did you make this change, as how have your crime and murder rates changed since you did so?

 

[geni]

What are the penalties for drinking under age, not attending school, working in a job where she is under age, and having sex?

They are a matter of public record you are free to look them up.

Is there an age where premeditated murder becomes legal?

Under US law a range of between 6 and 12 depending where you are. In England and Wales it's 10.

The penalties for premeditated murder should be the same for anyone old enough to understand the consequence of their actions. She meets that standard.

There are degrees of understanding. Something the law implicitly recognizes (diminished responsibility and the various age of consent laws). She is not allowed to vote under US law therefor US law does not view her judgment and knowlage base as being equal to that of a full adult citizen. This being the case it is unreasonable to apply unmodifed the standards applied to such citizens.

 

[Cicero]

They are a matter of public record you are free to look them up.



Under US law a range of between 6 and 12 depending where you are. In England and Wales it's 10.



There are degrees of understanding. Something the law implicitly recognizes (diminished responsibility and the various age of consent laws). She is not allowed to vote under US law therefor US law does not view her judgment and knowlage base as being equal to that of a full adult citizen. This being the case it is unreasonable to apply unmodifed the standards applied to such citizens.

That sounds like ACLU gibberish.

"All States have had at least one provision for trying certain youth of juvenile age as adults in criminal court."

Missouri's minumum age for judicial waiver is 12. The Juvenile court judge waived jurisdiction over her murder case and transfered it to criminal court. Do you wish for Missouri to change its laws regarding the age for judicial waiver?

 

[geni]

That sounds like ACLU gibberish.

Do you support giveing 15 year olds the vote and if not why not?

 

[Cicero]

Do you support giveing 15 year olds the vote and if not why not?

If the voting age was lowered to 10, does that mean that it would be OK to excute them should they be found guilty of a 1st degree murder? Only a fraction of Americans of voting age actually vote in federal elections. If you believe that extending the opportunity to vote to 15 year-olds implies that they now have the "judgment and knowlage base as being equal to that of a full adult citizen" so be it.

 

[PingOfPong]

Do you support giveing 15 year olds the vote and if not why not?

Having a mature understanding of civics or contractual obligation is not the same thing as being cognizant of basic moral principles.

For the record, I don't support the death penalty. I can't say I have much sympathy for this one though.

 

[Cainkane1]

Having a mature understanding of civics or contractual obligation is not the same thing as being cognizant of basic moral principles.

For the record, I don't support the death penalty. I can't say I have much sympathy for this one though.

I have no sympathy for this girl either but what should be done with her? She can't be executed because shes too young. Should she be incarcerated and never released? Thats what happened to that punk I helped put away. Should she perhaps have a chance for parole after shes been in for say thirty years? What?

 

[PingOfPong]

Like I said, no sympathy from me. I would give her a life sentence.

 

[geni]

Like I said, no sympathy from me. I would give her a life sentence.

Whats sympathy got to do with anything? You are being irrational. Keeping people in prision uses up a some of societies resources. Rehabilitation allows those resources to be refocused on something else.

 

[dtugg]

Whats sympathy got to do with anything? You are being irrational. Keeping people in prision uses up a some of societies resources. Rehabilitation allows those resources to be refocused on something else.

There is no possible way to know for sure if a murderer is rehabilitated. This girl is probably a psychopath and can't be anyway. Much better to let them rot in prison for the rest of their lives in order to protect society. I am perfectly willing to pay taxes in order to keep murderers behind bars.