http://www.physorg.com/news177772960.html

On one hand this is bad because a natural sink is disappearing, and this will accelerate warming. On the other hand this means acidification will not be as great as feared and this will have a less negative effect on ocean biological damage.
The article at your link says the oceans absorbed more CO2 than ever last year - 2.3 billion tons. The "decrease" is only a decrease as a proportion of total CO2 emissions. It doesn't suggest that the ocean is reaching a saturation point and will cease to function as a natural sink, just that it didn't match emissions pound for pound.
 
From Ben's article
Now, the first year-by-year accounting of this mechanism during the industrial era suggests the oceans are struggling to keep up with rising emissions -- a finding with potentially wide implications for future climate.

do you need everything spelled out for you??....
Now do you have

a) a current science article to contribute

b) any contribution that is scientifically accurate to add to the existing articles ??

:garfield:
 
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Nature Reports Climate Change
Published online: 19 November 2009 | doi:10.1038/climate.2009.120

The war against warming
Military and intelligence experts become increasingly focused on the "climate security" threat. Keith Kloor reports.


PA
Shortly before Rear Admiral Neil Morisetti came to Washington DC on 29 October to discuss the links between climate change and geopolitical instability, the stage was being set on both sides of the Atlantic.

In September, Morisetti was appointed as the United Kingdom's newly minted climate and energy security envoy. Later in the same month, the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) announced it was opening a special centre on climate change, which would assess "the national security impact of phenomena such as desertification, rising sea levels, population shifts and heightened competition for natural resources". In October, the UK government then unveiled a glossy, colour-coded map detailing how global warming could lead to water and food shortages, extended drought, mass migration and violent conflicts, if action to curtail greenhouse gases wasn't taken at the upcoming Copenhagen summit.
continues
http://www.nature.com/climate/2009/0912/full/climate.2009.120.html
 
No, it shows the sensitivity to CO2.
Maybe. What would have caused the CO2 levels to rise enough to cause a 6-degree temperature increase at a time when no one was burning fossil fuels? Isn't it true that the data suggests that rising CO2 levels during interglacials follow rising temperatures rather than leading them? Maybe it shows the sensitivity to some factor no one has considered yet, which drives both temperature increase and (later) CO2 increase as well. I'm not saying the rise in CO2 wouldn't have its own contribution to rising temperatures, but the fact that temperatures naturally rise during interglacial periods when there are no man-made greenhouse gases being produced makes me cautious about saying any rise we're currently observing must be primarily due to man-made greenhouse gases.

We will get a rise equivalent to the last interglacial and ADD TO THAT fossil CO2. We can expect more extreme results. Past variability due to natural cycles is what we need to explore to understand the ramifications of an un-natural modification to atmospheric gasses.
Again, maybe. Unless we know what caused the rise during the last interglacial, it's speculation to say that the same factors are at work today in the same measure. It could be less, it could be more.

Jumping immediately to pre-fab conclusions has a kind of God-of-the-gaps quality to it. If we don't understand it, it's okay to work toward increasing our understanding. I don't think we're justified in assuming "CO2 did it."
 
You have an article to contribute? No - then go away. - you have no idea what you are talking about
I really don't care for your tone. If you can demonstrate that you're capable of having a civil conversation, maybe we can have one. If not, I won't be baited, your sputtering cartoon comments will simply be ignored.

Knowledgerush encyclopedia has been upgraded to a 33 x GWP? Wow, I'll bet that will really improve their response time.

Ah, I think I see the source of our misunderstanding. Your Nature article says "For practical purposes, 500 to 1000 years is 'forever'". I was using the term "forever" to mean something a bit longer than that.

The science behind my 600 MYA scenario can be found here.
 
Isn't it true that the data suggests that rising CO2 levels during interglacials follow rising temperatures rather than leading them?
Indeed it is. A fact known to every climatologist, and anyone who has bothered to educate themselves on the subject.

Maybe it shows the sensitivity to some factor no one has considered yet, which drives both temperature increase and (later) CO2 increase as well.
Or maybe it's due to the factor that the climatologists have considered and say it is due to. Namely that carbon dioxide is soluble in water, but more soluble in cold water than warm water. So as the world warms or cools as a result of any external forcing (e.g. the Milankovitch cycles that drive the ice ages) the oceans start to warm/cool until eventually they start to release/absorb CO2, starting a positive feedback that amplifies the warming/cooling.
 
carbon dioxide is soluble in water, but more soluble in cold water than warm water. So as the world warms or cools as a result of any external forcing (e.g. the Milankovitch cycles that drive the ice ages) the oceans start to warm/cool until eventually they start to release/absorb CO2, starting a positive feedback that amplifies the warming/cooling.
Makes sense. Do they also have an explanation for the "spiking" mentioned in the article?
 
Makes sense. Do they also have an explanation for the "spiking" mentioned in the article?
I don't know. I know the oceanic CO2 positive feedback is invoked to explain the amplitude of changes in temperature that take place over tens of thousands of years, but shorter scale variations probably pose different, thornier, questions. I imagine that volcanism might explain some of them, but that's just a guess.
 
The article at your link says the oceans absorbed more CO2 than ever last year - 2.3 billion tons. The "decrease" is only a decrease as a proportion of total CO2 emissions. It doesn't suggest that the ocean is reaching a saturation point and will cease to function as a natural sink, just that it didn't match emissions pound for pound.

No, that the rate at which it does not match it has been declining.
 
Ocean Less Effective At Absorbing Carbon Dioxide Emitted By Human Activity

ScienceDaily (Feb. 23, 2009) — In the Southern Indian Ocean, climate change is leading to stronger winds, which mix waters, bringing CO2 up from the ocean depths to the surface. This is the conclusion of researchers who have studied the latest field measurements carried out by CNRS's INSU, IPEV and IPSL. As a result, the Southern Ocean can no longer absorb as much atmospheric CO2 as before. Its role as a 'carbon sink' has been weakened, and it may now be ten times less efficient than previously estimated. The same trend can be observed at high latitudes in the North Atlantic.
continues
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090216092937.htm
 
No, that the rate at which it does not match it has been declining.
According to the article, the percentage of of total carbon absorbed by the ocean is declining because the total is expanding. The amount of carbon which the ocean absorbs is still increasing, according to their calculations. There is no inflection point in the graph accompanying the paper; the ocean carbon sink line still seems to be showing an increase in the rate at which the ocean is absorbing carbon, not merely an increase in the amount absorbed (the line is exponential rather than linear). The problem they allege is that the rate at which carbon is being emitted is increasing even faster -- it's also exponential, but with a bigger exponent.

It's interesting that they're calculating the amount rather than measuring it. They're not even measuring the amount of CO2 in the ocean year over year, they're running a model based on assumptions about "seawater temperatures, salinity, man-made chlorofluorocarbons and other measures" and plotting it back to the 1800s. I guess it's safe to assume that man-made chlorofluorocarbons were zero then, but is there really data for Antarctic seawater temperatures, salinity, and "other measures" going that far back?

The authors also claim that the land is now absorbing more carbon than it is giving off -- 1.1 billion tons a year more, according to the article. From the graph, it looks like the inflection point there came between 1925 and 1950. They speculate that it's because increased atmospheric CO2 is good for growing plants, and helps them grow larger, locking more CO2 in biomass. They then seem to ignore this data point and go on to say that natural mechanisms can't be depended on to mitigate increased human emissions.
 
Antarctic ice loss vaster, faster than thought: study

Meanwhile, in Antarctica;

http://pda.physorg.com/billiontonnes-iceloss-sealevels_news178122015.html

The East Antarctic icesheet, once seen as largely unaffected by global warming, has lost billions of tonnes of ice since 2006 and could boost sea levels in the future, according to a new study.

<SNIP>

They also found for the first time that East Antarctica -- on the Eastern Hemisphere side of the continent -- is likewise losing mass, mostly in coastal regions, at a rate of about 57 billion tonnes annually.

<SNIP>

Up to now, scientists had thought that East Antarctica was in "balance," meaning that it accumulated as much mass and it gave off, perhaps a bit more.

<SNIP>
 
Indeed it is. A fact known to every climatologist, and anyone who has bothered to educate themselves on the subject.


For the simple reason that CO2 isn't belived to be the *initial* cause of the warming. The initial warming that cases the release of CO2 is small in comparison to the warming the CO2 causes. This has been explained to him in detail, but he simply ignores the things he doesn't wish to hear.
 
For the simple reason that CO2 isn't belived to be the *initial* cause of the warming. The initial warming that cases the release of CO2 is small in comparison to the warming the CO2 causes. This has been explained to him in detail, but he simply ignores the things he doesn't wish to hear.
I think you have me confused with someone else, but my memory may have failed me. Feel free to point out where this has been explained to me in detail.

I think it might be useful to have a discussion of Milankovitch cycles in a separate thread; if my search doesn't reveal one, perhaps I'll start one.
 
Feel free to point out where this has been explained to me in detail
A detailed explanation of why the CO2 rise lags, rather than leads, temperature in past natural warmings has been given many times in these threads; I've given it several times myself. Of course there are a lot of AGW threads, so it's possible you missed it every time. A quick search for Milankovitch found dozens of threads, too many to easily find my own posts giving the explanation, though I did spot this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5258565#post5258565
 

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