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Moderated What's wrong with porn?

You may very well be right however I'm reasonably certain that the average person percieves that there is a real risk and that this is a real solution.
I think if you came out to the Middle East, lived alongside and interacted socially with such women, you'd find that your parochial ideas are just a little past their sell-by date!

By average person I mean the average person who lives in such a society.
:relieved:
 
"why does it instill you with fear?"

It doesn't. That's a straw man and I've tried very hard to disabuse you of this. I've never used the word "instill". You know this. This is dishonest on your part.

That's not a valid answer to the question. My question is quite clear: Why do you allow your own tastes to form the basis on which you judge others who are simply exercising their rights?
???

You are not making sense. Humans have competing goals and motivations. Logic can't resolve every conflict.


Logic & Fallacies said:
...logic is not a set of rules which govern human behavior. Humans may have logically conflicting goals. For example:
  • John wishes to speak to whomever is in charge.
  • The person in charge is Steve.
  • Therefore John wishes to speak to Steve.
Unfortunately, John may have a conflicting goal of avoiding Steve, meaning that the reasoned answer may be inapplicable to real life.

We can and should use logic and reason to make decisions but sometimes there is a conflict.

You admit that you form irrational views and act irrationally.
Another straw man. And ad hominem poisoning the well. I said I'm capable of acting irrationally. As are all humans.

I trust you will appreciate that it would be irrational of me to continue to debate with somebody who, by their own admission, forms irrational views.
It's been predicted for some time now that you would weasel your way out of the discussion so that's not at all a surprise.
 
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I think if you came out to the Middle East, lived alongside and interacted socially with such women, you'd find that your parochial ideas are just a little past their sell-by date!
This is simply rhetoric. You've not addressed the point made.

Do you advocate that more women should wear burkhas?
 
You admit that you form irrational views and act irrationally.
BTW: While it's true that I act irrationaly from time to time (I'm human most of us do) unlike you I don't want to pass laws based on irrationality.

And SW, that is exactly what you are doing. Adimiitedly so. You acknowledge that your cause is based on fear, intuition and bias. You admit that you would act without any evidence. I'm just honest enough to admit that my actions could very well be irrational.

Thank you RandFan.

No, thank you.
 
It doesn't. That's a straw man and I've tried very hard to disabuse you of this. I've never used the word "instill". You know this. This is dishonest on your part.
OK - "instill" is simply my choice of word (it's really not a loaded choice - I think it's appropriate when one is referring to fear, but there you go). So what word would you choose, then, to describe the "seeding" of your feeling of fear (not that this is particularly relevant - the fact that you've admitted you would be scared is enough - I'm just wanting to know what the actual cause of your fear is):
Matthew is right. I don't think it is necessarily sound. It's just my intuition, fear and admitted bias. [emphasis added]


Humans have competing goals and motivations. Logic can't resolve every conflict.
So you're claiming that your judgements of others are incapable of rational analysis and reconciliation. How convenient.

Another straw man. And ad hominem poisoning the well. I said I'm capable of acting irrationally.
Plainly wrong. You wrote:
I don't pretend that I never act irrationaly.
But see below also.


This is simply rhetoric. You've not addressed the point made.
You have no idea why many modern-day women wear burkhas!

Do you advocate that more women should wear burkhas?
No more than I advocate that more men should wear thobes.

BTW: While it's true that I act irrationaly from time to time ...
Another straw man. And ad hominem poisoning the well. I said I'm capable of acting irrationally.
I honestly don't think you know what you've written and what you haven't. Does senility come along for the ride with irrationality?! Or maybe senility is the cause of irrationality!

You acknowledge that your cause is based on fear, intuition and bias.
Please show where.
 
Well, what about my answer, SW?

I don't feel any fear with the girls, indeed, I couldn't care less about their boyfriends. Why? I KNOW that if I had a fear it would be irrational and I don't have all the facts.

RandFan's point, which you seem to be dodging, is that although humans may have an irrational fear, it should no way be the way a government should decide a law.

Do you feel that a government should decide laws simply because people get fear from something? Is it good to rule people by fear?

In Korea (I think), people are afraid that a fan in a room can suck out all the air and cause asphyxiation. The idea is utter nonsense but enough people fear it so that there are warnings on their fans there. Should the government step in and make fans illegal because most of the people there fear that this is true?
 
The facts are that rape and child molestation is below the norm in nations who have a more enlightened view of porn. Nations such as most Scandinavian countries and most of Europe. Most muslims I come into contact with here are regular prostitute customers because of their religion that bans premarital sex. I sometimes get the feeling that these guys are walking time bombs with their sexual pent up frustrations.
 
I don't feel any fear with the girls, indeed, I couldn't care less about their boyfriends. Why? I KNOW that if I had a fear it would be irrational and I don't have all the facts.
I consider that both foolish and irresponsible at best; negligent at worst. If your child was molested by the VCP-reading boyfriend (and I'm by no means suggesting that that's certain, and I'm also clarifying that the molestation could have absolutely nothing in reality to do with his reading VCP (of course, we'll never know for sure!)) and the Authorities discovered that you'd consciously elected to allow him to co-babysit your child, what would your response be if challenged? Would it be:
I couldn't care less about their boyfriends. Why? I KNOW that if I had a fear it would be irrational and I don't have all the facts. [emphasis added - particularly note the first: care less - meaning you don't care at all]
If so, you would deserve to be indicted for failing to adequately care for a minor in your charge, and rightly so. You clearly haven't thought this through properly, preferring to defend an untennable principle through sheer dogmatism. Not to worry, though - we all KNOW what the real answer is, if push came to shove! ;)

RandFan's point, which you seem to be dodging, is that although humans may have an irrational fear, it should no way be the way a government should decide a law.
I'm dodging it because it's irrelevant. Why? When you write about "government" what and who do you think you're referring to? You're referring to people. People who, in all likelihood, are no different from RandFan, in principle. What makes you think that lawmakers do, or should, think differently from everybody else? Are they some form of special breed? I have no doubt that many lawmakers would offer exactly the same ill-considered response as RandFan has if faced with the same "dilemma". Do you think that it's reasonable to expect that they should somehow divorce their humanistic thoughts from their decision-making process? Hell - why don't we just develop some appropriately complex algorithms and have a couple of laptops write laws for us?

Do you feel that a government should decide laws simply because people get fear from something?
Laws are designed to protect society. If society is fearful of something that can be assuaged by law, then hell, yes, of course it should be addressed by law. Why on earth do you think murder is illegal?

Is it good to rule people by fear?
I don't think you mean how this literally reads. If you're equating introducing laws to assuage society's fear (irrational or otherwise) with positively inciting fear in society (clearly not irrational!) as a means to introduce an otherwise unjustified law, I think you've confused yourself slightly. If not, perhaps you could contextualize your question.

In Korea (I think), people are afraid that a fan in a room can suck out all the air and cause asphyxiation. The idea is utter nonsense but enough people fear it so that there are warnings on their fans there. Should the government step in and make fans illegal because most of the people there fear that this is true?
Notwithstanding that I'm intrigued to learn what such warnings actually say(!), as I wrote above, laws are designed to protect society. If there's a net benefit to society in having perspiring people instead of scared people and a law would achieve that then yes, fans should be made illegal. It's no different, in principle, to recognizing the net benefit to society in having an educated populace, hence making schooling compulsory (hey - perhaps I should suggest that to strengthen my argument - compulsory schooling for children? No - I'll just get shot down in flames -it's surely a breach of the fundamental right not to educate your kids!). I would, however, ascribe to the idea of exhausting all other appropriate means to address the issue first, though, like education, for example!
 
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The facts are that rape and child molestation is below the norm in nations who have a more enlightened view of porn. Nations such as most Scandinavian countries and most of Europe.
Could you please cite these facts, particularly those relating to child molestation. Just one question, though, first: What was the methodology adopted for medically and/or psychologically testing every single child in the land?!

Most muslims I come into contact with here are regular prostitute customers because of their religion that bans premarital sex. I sometimes get the feeling that these guys are walking time bombs with their sexual pent up frustrations.
Don't worry mate - if they haven't "exploded" by now you can rest assured there's absolutely no reason whatsoever to believe that they will be externally influenced to "explode" at any time in the future! No causative link exists. You can sleep easily tonight. Oh ... and so can your wife and your daughters, tell them! :rolleyes:
 
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Belz...'s post above has reminded me - I owe you a slight apology JFrankA - you weren't actually the first person ever to be graced with my ignore powers!
 
How do you know?

Good point. I don't. But then the same can be said of any negative experience, of any degree. Of course, that's all irrelevant because the burden of evidence would be on the one claiming that it HAS caused harm.

No, they can be very helpful in lots of situations. They're just not all they're cracked up to be all of the time.

Thanks for proving my point.
 

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