9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[9/11-investigator]

Maja opines: “No, he most certainly did not admit that.”… where she reacts to my assertion that “Hilberg had to admit that there was no documentary evidence for mass extermination of Jews in gas chambers whatsoever.”

Juergen Graf’s book about Hilberg: “The Giant With Feet of Clay”

http://vho.org/dl/ENG/Giant.pdf

p113: In her excellent narrative 'Did Six Million Really Die?' bearing the same title as the Harwood pamphlet that had led to the trial. Barbara Kulaszka has partially summarized Hilberg.s statements and partially quoted them directly from the transcript of the trial.

Here is Kulaszka's summary of Hilberg’s testimony:

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/dsmrd/dsmrd09hilberg.html

Quote from Graf's book:

p113: Christie asked Hilberg about the Hitler order for the extermination of all Jews which had appeared in his first edition (the second edition was then in preparation). After endless excuses, Hilberg finally conceded that there was no proof for such an order.

p114: I don't usually have to define simple words, said Christie, but by ‘scientific report’ I mean a report conducted by anyone who purported to be a scientist and who examined physical evidence. Name one report of such a kind that showed the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory. (5-968)
’I still don’t quite understand the import of your question,’ said Hilberg. ’Are you referring to a German, or a post-war--’
I don’t care who--German, post-war, Allied, Soviet--any source at all. Name one, said Christie.
’To prove what?, ’ asked Hilberg.
To conclude that they have physically seen a gas chamber. One scientific report, repeated Christie.
’I am really at a loss. I am very seldom at such a loss, but ... [...]
Judge Locke interrupted: 'Doctor ... do you know of such a report?'
’No, ’ replied Hilberg..

Hilberg, the holocaust pope had to admit en plein publique that he had no proof for the gas chambers.

 

[Nonpareil]

Dude, did you even read Maja's post? At all?

 

[Trojan]

Maja opinies: “No, he most certainly did not admit that.”… where she reacts to my assertion that “Hilberg had to admit that there was no documentary evidence for mass extermination of Jews in gas chambers whatsoever.”

Juergen Graf’s book about Hilberg: “The Giant With Feet of Clay”

http://vho.org/dl/ENG/Giant.pdf

p113: In her excellent narrative 'Did Six Million Really Die?' bearing the same title as the Harwood pamphlet that had led to the trial. Barbara Kulaszka has partially summarized Hilberg.s statements and partially quoted them directly from the transcript of the trial.

Here is this summary of Hilberg’s testimony:

http://www.zundelsite.org/english/dsmrd/dsmrd09hilberg.html

Quote from Graf's book:

p113: Christie asked Hilberg about the Hitler order for the extermination of all Jews which had appeared in his first edition (the second edition was then in preparation). After endless excuses, Hilberg finally conceded that there was no proof for such an order.

p114: I don't usually have to define simple words, said Christie, but by ‘scientific report’ I mean a report conducted by anyone who purported to be a scientist and who examined physical evidence. Name one report of such a kind that showed the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory. (5-968)
’I still don’t quite understand the import of your question,’ said Hilberg. ’Are you referring to a German, or a post-war--’
I don’t care who--German, post-war, Allied, Soviet--any source at all. Name one, said Christie.
’To prove what?, ’ asked Hilberg.
To conclude that they have physically seen a gas chamber. One scientific report, repeated Christie.
’I am really at a loss. I am very seldom at such a loss, but ... [...]
Judge Locke interrupted: 'Doctor ... do you know of such a report?'
’No, ’ replied Hilberg..

Hilberg, the holocaust pope had to admit en plein publique that he had no proof for the gas chambers.

He admitted he did not have a scientific report -- he did not state there was no proof.


I know English is not your first language, but this is a very important distinction.

 

[9/11-investigator]

He admitted he did not have a scientific report -- he did not state there was no proof. I know English is not your first language, but this is a very important distinction.

I hope that this unscientific proof, which you no doubt are going to present in page 739 in this thread, is at least peer-reviewed by other non-scientists.

 

[9/11-investigator]

You now abandon this discussion, implicitly admitting defeat on that particular subject.

No I don't. I am just bored by repetition.

Now... WHERE DID THE 6 MILLIONS MISSING JEWS GO? HELL; WHERE DID THE 12 MILLIONS VICTIMS GO?

Where are the cities they now hide in to further their pretended lies?
Where are the hundred of villages?

Where are they?

Simon39759 echos Hilberg who once said: "“The critics cannot explain one very simple fact: What became of the people who were deported? The deportations were not kept secret. They were announced. Many millions of people were shipped to very specific places. Where are these people? They are certainly not hiding in China!”" (p117)

Maybe it's a good idea to start collecting evidence for this famous 6M number. Here is the answer Juergen Graf gives to this question:

Indeed, where are these people? Hilberg is right that they are not hiding in China. Where they ended up is illustrated by an article on 24th November 1978 in the State Times (Baton Rouge, Louisiana, p. 8a):

“The Steinbergs once flourished in a small Jewish village in Poland.
That was before Hitler’s death camps. Now more than 200 far-flung survivors
and descendants are gathered here to share a special four-day celebration
that began, appropriately, on Thanksgiving day. Relatives came
Thursday from Canada, France, England, Argentina, Columbia, Israel and
at least 13 cities across the United States. ‘It’s fabulous’, said Iris Krasnow
of Chicago. ‘There are five generations here—from 3 months old to 85. People
are crying and having a wonderful time. It’s almost like a World War II
refugee reunion’.”
​

These are concrete examples of Hilberg’s ‘gassing victims’!

 

[dudalb]

And just who the hell is occupying Germany today? Those Evil Joos?

 

[Nonpareil]

I hope that this unscientific proof, which you no doubt are going to present in page 739 in this thread, is at least peer-reviewed by other non-scientists.

Yeah, sorry, that's not going to work. Trial testimony is admissible as evidence - "scientific" articles that have not receive peer reviews are not.

No I don't. I am just bored by repetition.

Same with everyone here.

Simon39759 echos Hilberg who once said: "“The critics cannot explain one very simple fact: What became of the people who were deported? The deportations were not kept secret. They were announced. Many millions of people were shipped to very specific places. Where are these people? They are certainly not hiding in China!”" (p117)

Maybe it's a good idea to start collecting evidence for this famous 6M number. Here is the answer Juergen Graf gives to this question:

Indeed, where are these people? Hilberg is right that they are not hiding in China. Where they ended up is illustrated by an article on 24th November 1978 in the State Times (Baton Rouge, Louisiana, p. 8a):

“The Steinbergs once flourished in a small Jewish village in Poland.
That was before Hitler’s death camps. Now more than 200 far-flung survivors
and descendants are gathered here to share a special four-day celebration
that began, appropriately, on Thanksgiving day. Relatives came
Thursday from Canada, France, England, Argentina, Columbia, Israel and
at least 13 cities across the United States. ‘It’s fabulous’, said Iris Krasnow
of Chicago. ‘There are five generations here—from 3 months old to 85. People
are crying and having a wonderful time. It’s almost like a World War II
refugee reunion’.”
​

These are concrete examples of Hilberg’s ‘gassing victims’!

Those are the REFUGEES. Note the word. REFUGEES.

 

[Trojan]

I hope that this unscientific proof, which you no doubt are going to present in page 739 in this thread, is at least peer-reviewed by other non-scientists.

Are you familiar with a Western concept called evidence? Evidence is not proof, in fact I'm nor sure what 'proof' is, since its rather subjective and open to individual interpretation.

Evidence on the other hand would include such things as witness testimony -- another new and rather novel concept, I believe jurisprudence began accepting witness testimony some time after the laws governing society were first passed from village to village.

At any rate, I do not recall you asking for evidence of the existence of Treblinka, it certainly what not part of your opening monologue.

 

[9/11-investigator]

For my own reference a recent new book unknown to me:

The Arguments
by Jürgen Graf

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/index.html

 

[Nonpareil]

A summary of the argument you wish to present on behalf of this book, please?

 

[Chaos]

A summary of the argument you wish to present on behalf of this book, please?

I can guess... "This book is the bestest ever because it reinforces my beliefs. Also, jews are evil and you are all poopie-heads."

 

[Nonpareil]

I can guess... "This book is the bestest ever because it reinforces my beliefs. Also, jews are evil and you are all poopie-heads."

Sad thing is, that's probably just about as perfect a summary as we'll get.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

For my own reference a recent new book unknown to me:

The Arguments
by Jürgen Graf

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/index.html

It is not a book but 15 foolscap pages on a website. I just read it. Jurgen Graf is not very clever. For Himmler's Oct 1943 recorded speech on the execution of jews Jurgen writes "There are no original texts of the speeches. Himmler is allegedly supposed to have had the text of these (and other) speeches written down later with a typewriter -- for whom? For posterity?"

No, we have Himmler's voice and the original wire recording! Whe Jurgen changes his mind and later admits there is a wireless recording he states it is probably a fake. He doesn't explain why he thinks it's a fake.


Jurgen continues "On 9 March 1944, as the extermination of the Hungarian Jews was already running full tilt, according to the legend, Himmler wrote to the Chief of the SS Main Office as well as to the SS Economic Main Administration Office stating (53): "The Fuehrer has ordered the transfer of 10,000 men, with officers and non-commissioned officers, to supervise the 200,000 Jews being transferred to the concentration camps of the Reich in order to put them to work on large construction projects for the OT [Organization Todt] and other projects of importance to the war."

What Jurgen has ignored is that the Todt Organisation did not destroy its documents and neither did the OKH nor did the FHA Waffen SS. The only division formed around early 1944 by the FHA was the 22nd SS Friewilling Kavallrie Division "Maria Theresia" in Hungary using Volksdeutche. It never reached divisional strength. There are no other 10,000 SS officers floating around to assign to anything and the next divisions were not raised until after June when the eastern front collapsed.

Albert Speer, head of the Todt Organisation, in "Inside the Third Reich" states concerning the 1944 production conference with Hitler stated "I Wanted to agree with on joint tactics to prevent Saukel from resuming his deportations from the occupied western areas"...At no point does anyone at the conference discuss using eastern Jews in the Todt Organisation because Speer was deporting "trained labour" not women & children. In fact the Todt Organisation only took in 20,000 "second mention" jews in late 1944 before the war ended.

So which Todt Organisation project did these 200,000 eastern jews work on? Which SS division escorted them?

^ Wolf Gruner (2006). Jewish Forced Labor Under the Nazis. Economic Needs and Racial Aims, 1938–1944. Institute of Contemporary History, Munich and Berlin. New York: Cambridge University Press. Published in association with the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. ISBN 9780521838757



"For months Hitler had been demanding that industry be transfered to caves and huge shelters....the huge shelter Hitler was demanding could only be built by the Todt Organisation.......I handed my resignation letter to Hitler.....

 

[Belgian thought]

9/11-investigator you are quite indescribable. I should rephrase that, the words I want to use to describe you would not be allowed on this forum.

I personally know Holocaust survivors, (and before you presume that I am another Jew, I am not), and your attitude to the events of the past, are so in-human, based on hate filled revisionist historians, that you should really go and visit some of the camps and see them for yourself.

If you can't afford to do that, then get a cheap flight to London to the Imperial War Museum and visit the holocaust exhibition there. EasyJet flies there relatively cheaply from Amsterdam. If you want me to introduce you to the curator/historian of the exhibition - again a non-Jew, to explain to you the events at Auschwitz, I can do so.

Your postings have truly saddened me, and it takes a lot to upset me.

 

[Kurse]

9/11-investigator you are quite indescribable. I should rephrase that, the words I want to use to describe you would not be allowed on this forum.

I personally know Holocaust survivors, (and before you presume that I am another Jew, I am not), and your attitude to the events of the past, are so in-human, based on hate filled revisionist historians, that you should really go and visit some of the camps and see them for yourself.

If you can't afford to do that, then get a cheap flight to London to the Imperial War Museum and visit the holocaust exhibition there. EasyJet flies there relatively cheaply from Amsterdam. If you want me to introduce you to the curator/historian of the exhibition - again a non-Jew, to explain to you the events at Auschwitz, I can do so.

Your postings have truly saddened me, and it takes a lot to upset me.

Just to let you know, he's going to come back saying "I was at the camp before!! Scout's Honor!!"
But he has the fail sticker on that one. He can't even show proof that he went.

 

[Belz...]

No, we have Himmler's voice and the original wire recording! Whe Jurgen changes his mind and later admits there is a wireless recording he states it is probably a fake. He doesn't explain why he thinks it's a fake.

Well, it's obvious, isn't it ? The Holocaust didn't happen, therefore all evidence showing that it did is faked.

 

[dudalb]

More about Jurgen Graf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jürgen_Graf

A David Irving Wannabe.
And going to Iran as a poltical refugee????????????

 

[9/11-investigator]

More about Jurgen Graf:

A David Irving Wannabe.
And going to Iran as a poltical refugee????????????

That's exactly what he is, he was sentenced in his homeland Switerland because he held certain opinions about recent history and was not prepared to shut up about it. He didn't like to go to prison so he went to Iran, as you know the first post-Holocaust nation on this planet and certainly not the last. Nowadays he lives in Moscow where is free from western thought control, imposed by the ruling class dominated by the YKW's.

500 years ago such a person was called a heretic. We are back in the Middle Ages again. 2 centuries of Enlightenment for nothing.

 

[9/11-investigator]

It is not a book but 15 foolscap pages on a website. I just read it. Jurgen Graf is not very clever. For Himmler's Oct 1943 recorded speech on the execution of jews Jurgen writes "There are no original texts of the speeches. Himmler is allegedly supposed to have had the text of these (and other) speeches written down later with a typewriter -- for whom? For posterity?"

No, we have Himmler's voice and the original wire recording! Whe Jurgen changes his mind and later admits there is a wireless recording he states it is probably a fake. He doesn't explain why he thinks it's a fake.

Let's stick with one topic at a time please, the Posen speech by Himmler, one of the few circumstantial pieces of evidence used to 'prove' the existence of an extermination program of an entire population.

Two questions for Matthew here:

1) Could you please explain to us using the German original text why you think that this recorded speech is positive proof of said program?
2) Could you identify for me who is the orator of this other famous speech?

You may use a calculator for this exercise.

Good luck.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Let's stick with one topic at a time please,