What I Learned Today in Conspiracy Land

Skeptic Guy

Raccoon Death Squad Leader
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
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Do not waste your time debating conspiracists who post anti-vax tripe on the Alex Jones channel at Youtube. It is like talking to a brick wall and accomplishes nothing but raise your bloodpressure.

That is all. I just needed to vent a little.
 
Therein lies the best part of beating your head against a brick wall: it feels so good once you stop.

Michael
 
Do not waste your time debating conspiracists who post anti-vax tripe on the Alex Jones channel at Youtube. It is like talking to a brick wall and accomplishes nothing but raise your bloodpressure.

That is all. I just needed to vent a little.

LOL...I usually tell myself not to be baited in, but a couple of weeks ago I feel into a trap while playing World of Warcraft. Someone kept pimping one of AJs videos in the general chat channel and I without thinking denounced the video and within 5 seconds was receiving a private message with the usually "sleep/sheep" accusations. I decided to play along for a few minutes and explain facts, but he would have none of it.

45 minutes I'll never get back!:(
 
Do not waste your time debating conspiracists who post anti-vax tripe on the Alex Jones channel at Youtube. It is like talking to a brick wall and accomplishes nothing but raise your bloodpressure.

That is all. I just needed to vent a little.

I take comfort in this, actually.

The way I see it, eventually a serious plague will wander our way. And those who oppose vaccination and legitimate medical treatment will self-select out of our gene pool.

If that sounds harsh, I will remind you: the decision is theirs. I support freedom, including the freedom to allow yourself to become infected and die from horrible, preventable diseases.

tl;dr: polio- mother f***ers- have you heard of it? Oh- so you understand the words coming out of my mouth?
 
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Problem with that viewpoint, zaphod, is that we all benefit from herd immunity. If too many people don't get vaccinated, then innocent people are put at risk: people who are unable to get vaccinated (too young/old, medical conditions) or for whom the vaccination didn't "take".

Not only that, but - as I understand it - vaccination doesn't entirely prevent you from getting ill; often, it prevents the illness from getting too severe. Thus, you also end up with a higher chance for vaccinated people getting non-life-threatening, but nonetheless uncomfortable, illnesses.

The medical specialists can correct me on this, of course, but I've seen the first (herd immunity) on reputable web sites [such as our own Phil Plait's].
 
I got into an argument with GEERUP, one of YouTube's most infamous trolls, about a month ago about the H1N1 vaccine, the NWO and the "80% depopulation" junk. He asked me to PM him when I get the vaccine, which I will do.
But arguing with him (he was surprisingly polite and articulate outside of the video, actually) brought down an avalanche of comments from other anti-vaxxers. The worst of them was graphattic, whom I actually had to post a video about to get him to shut up and stop PMing me with five pages of ad hom.
 
Problem with that viewpoint, zaphod, is that we all benefit from herd immunity. If too many people don't get vaccinated, then innocent people are put at risk

I stand corrected.

As usual, the stupid just loves to ruin everything for everyone.
 
One of the guys I'm debating with is knightstemplar something and another is Matt999, I believe, anyway they asked me if I thought people should be forced to get vaccinated and I kind of did because of the herd effect. Vaccination doesn't work unless a majority is vaccinated. But then again, they see me as part of the NWO and Big Pharma.

One of them started posting quotes from medical publications that seem suggest that certain vaccines were either ineffective or dangerous, but when I pulled them up on the Internet either they didn't say that or the only reference I could fine to the study was from other anti-vax, lunatic fringe web sites. I pointed out to them that rather than posting supposed cites from these types of sources, they go to the acutal publication and make sure that it says what they think it says. They didn't appreciate me suggesting that these websites might be lying.

It goes on, but I will cut it off today.
 
After a few years, I am not so sure that one can "debate" the vast majority of conspiracy theorists. Debate requires a willingness by the CTer to at least acknowledge the facts and relent on key points when debunked if the proper evidence is shown - something that Alex Jones style CT fans will never, ever do. Thus you aren't really debating them, you are just talking at them.

The typical CT method of "argument" is:
1) Argument by quotes. (Random unverifiable quotes by famous people that support their points - usually completely made up or taken out of context.)
2) Argument by popularity (Use of popular media stories saying that XXX number of people share their woo fringe belief, or that famous people believed in the conspiracy so it must be true.)
3) Argument ad hominem (Accusation of the skeptic as a disinformation agent, CIA agent, government shill, etc.)
4) Argument ad ignorantium (Appeal to "well, some conspiracies are historically proven, therefore all conspiracies must be real" OR "we can't know everything, therefore everything the government says cannot be true")

When you point out the type of fallacy they are using (since their entire line of argument always relies on these fallacies) they go to the next, after about four rounds they just ignore you and go back to step 1.
 
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There's really no point in arguing with them. I just went back and re-read the PM conversation I had with graphattic... guy was loonier than I remembered.

O_o

These people are flat-out not going to listen to reason. End of story.
 
After a few years, I am not so sure that one can "debate" the vast majority of conspiracy theorists. Debate requires a willingness by the CTer to at least acknowledge the facts and relent on key points when debunked if the proper evidence is shown - something that Alex Jones style CT fans will never, ever do. Thus you aren't really debating them, you are just talking at them.

The typical CT method of "argument" is:
1) Argument by quotes. (Random unverifiable quotes by famous people that support their points - usually completely made up or taken out of context.)
2) Argument by popularity (Use of popular media stories saying that XXX number of people share their woo fringe belief, or that famous people believed in the conspiracy so it must be true.)
3) Argument ad hominem (Accusation of the skeptic as a disinformation agent, CIA agent, government shill, etc.)
4) Argument ad ignorantium (Appeal to "well, some conspiracies are historically proven, therefore all conspiracies must be real" OR "we can't know everything, therefore everything the government says cannot be true")

When you point out the type of fallacy they are using (since their entire line of argument always relies on these fallacies) they go to the next, after about four rounds they just ignore you and go back to step 1.

They don't want to debate you, they want to convert you. After all, they have the Truth.
 
I take comfort in this, actually.

The way I see it, eventually a serious plague will wander our way. And those who oppose vaccination and legitimate medical treatment will self-select out of our gene pool.


Oh sure, more fodder to start the zombie apocalypse.
 
I had a similar experience with some of the "run your car on water" folks. I even had somebody tell me that the Law of Conservation of Energy had been refuted and that I needed to catch up on the latest reaearch.
 
Do not waste your time debating conspiracists who post anti-vax tripe on the Alex Jones channel at Youtube. It is like talking to a brick wall and accomplishes nothing but raise your bloodpressure.

That is all. I just needed to vent a little.

Actually, I find brick walls to be slightly more sensible.. at least they're good for something :)
 
I got into an argument with GEERUP, one of YouTube's most infamous trolls, about a month ago about the H1N1 vaccine, the NWO and the "80% depopulation" junk. He asked me to PM him when I get the vaccine, which I will do.
But arguing with him (he was surprisingly polite and articulate outside of the video, actually) brought down an avalanche of comments from other anti-vaxxers. The worst of them was graphattic, whom I actually had to post a video about to get him to shut up and stop PMing me with five pages of ad hom.

I got the vaccine about 3 weeks ago.

I'm soooo dead right now.

(actually my arm was sore for a week.. I think these anti-vaxxers are just pussies afraid of being poked..)
 
One of the guys I'm debating with is knightstemplar something and another is Matt999, I believe, anyway they asked me if I thought people should be forced to get vaccinated and I kind of did because of the herd effect. Vaccination doesn't work unless a majority is vaccinated. But then again, they see me as part of the NWO and Big Pharma.

One of them started posting quotes from medical publications that seem suggest that certain vaccines were either ineffective or dangerous, but when I pulled them up on the Internet either they didn't say that or the only reference I could fine to the study was from other anti-vax, lunatic fringe web sites. I pointed out to them that rather than posting supposed cites from these types of sources, they go to the acutal publication and make sure that it says what they think it says. They didn't appreciate me suggesting that these websites might be lying.

It goes on, but I will cut it off today.

Good job! Keep it up! I was a die-hard 9/11 CT until the Screw Loose Change thouroughly convinced me that Dylan Avery is a punk kid who either doesn't know how to do proper researcher or is a vile and outright liar (or both). CTers are literally brainwashed into thinking that their sources are TRUE (yes, all caps) and thus anything, even slightly off, is FALSE. They need to realise that with ALL issues, and ALL documents, there will be a blend of truth and uncertainty, and to always be prepared that even those they trust the most may be feeding them falsehoods. Even more dispicable is when these falsehoods are peddled for honest cash, i.e. Alex Jones and Kevin Trudeau..

Interestingly enough, I found it disgusting how Jones was droooooooling over Trudeau on the air, as if Trudeau is a good guy. Trudeau is a convicted scam artist. It's not surprising that Jones idolizes Trudeau and his vile marketing.
 
Actually, I find brick walls to be slightly more sensible.. at least they're good for something :)

I have to tell you it was painful. And of course I was told I had to "keep an open mind" to the stuff that science can't answer. One of them posted an article from New Scientist about 13 things that has science scratching its collective head. See science can't answer everything!!!! I had to explain that is not what the article is saying. Science just needs a little time.

I got the vaccine about 3 weeks ago.

I'm soooo dead right now.

(actually my arm was sore for a week.. I think these anti-vaxxers are just pussies afraid of being poked..)

I explained that my wife and kids had just received the H1N1 jab and they are doing just fine, thank you.

Good job! Keep it up! I was a die-hard 9/11 CT until the Screw Loose Change thouroughly convinced me that Dylan Avery is a punk kid who either doesn't know how to do proper researcher or is a vile and outright liar (or both). CTers are literally brainwashed into thinking that their sources are TRUE (yes, all caps) and thus anything, even slightly off, is FALSE. They need to realise that with ALL issues, and ALL documents, there will be a blend of truth and uncertainty, and to always be prepared that even those they trust the most may be feeding them falsehoods. Even more dispicable is when these falsehoods are peddled for honest cash, i.e. Alex Jones and Kevin Trudeau..

Interestingly enough, I found it disgusting how Jones was droooooooling over Trudeau on the air, as if Trudeau is a good guy. Trudeau is a convicted scam artist. It's not surprising that Jones idolizes Trudeau and his vile marketing.

All the reference I got from them were either from anti-vax sites, stormfront, prisonplanet...etc. It was scary.
 

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