Just what did Darwin say about homosexuality?

[Steve]

Does your wife class the handeling of snakes as deviant behavior?

I doubt that she would think of it those exact terms. See below for my thoughts on the word deviant

Does she make a point that the handeling of snakes is deviant behavior before she leaves?

She would not take the time to make any point at all. At most you would hear a loud, involuntary, receding screech as she ran away.

Calling something sexualy deviant is the definition of perverted.

Seems there are different definitions that can be used for the word deviant depending on one's intended message. I do not have a great deal of trust in on-line info so I consulted my print copy of Webster's New World Dictionary.
The word "pervert" and its variants do not appear under any of the definitions of Deviant, Deviate, or Deviation in my copy. The printed definitions are actually pretty close to my prior understanding of the meaning of the word, and include "a turning aside, often only to a slight degree...esp. from what is considered normal in a group or for a society".

Or it could be the labeling of people as sexual deviants(a nicer way of saying perverts).

It could, or it could not. Depends on what one perceives the motive of the person using the term to be. The term pervert as used in this thread is your choice of words, not 3bodyproblem's. How should the readers of the thread perceive your motive in using this term?

Oddly given his liking of the mathmatical definition of deviant, he does not class redheads as deviants, so there is a clear moral component to his defition, that being a deviant is improper.

Well, I am a redhead (or was before most fell out and the rest turned grey), and, based on my understanding of the term, I would consider my redheadedness to be a deviation from the norm, so, if you like, I am a deviant in that regard.. This certainly does not mean that I am bigoted against redheads nor do I consider them, as a group, to be perverts (although I have no doubt that some are).

 

[Aitch]

Just to chuck a spanner in somebody's works, it would appear fruit-bats like a bit of oral too.

 

[Furcifer]

Deviant.

Exactly. You're dealing with an entirely different mindset here PT. I've been called a freak, It doesn't really bother me. I hope mt character sees me through. I hope my opinionated bias bigotry is overshadowed by my kindness and understanding. The interwebs not withstanding.

 

[jmcvann]

Darwin didn't say much on the subject. Besides which, not to put to fine a point on it, Who Cares?

Darwin is a distinguished scientist who helped define a theory that became central to biological science. Aristotle helped define the role of logic, which is crucial to assessing arguments. Newton developed calculus and the basic Law of Motion in physics, which both are fundamental tools to understanding and assessing the world around us.

I don't give a rip what Aristotle, Newton, or Darwin said about homosexuality. It wasn't in the arena of their substantial and valuable contributions to the method and knowledge body of science. The use of "appeal to authority" and "it's in the Book" as arguments is not valid as a means of knowledge. This is not a Bible study class; I don't care who said it, I care if it can be tested and shown to be true or false, or partially true.

Without having read most of the preceding 5 pages, I'm sure there has been a lot of moralizing and counter-punching on the subject of homosexuality. Here's the point, though: The basic question of the thread is neatly answered by, "What difference does that make?" That Darwin said it doesn't make it more likely to be true or false than that Liberace said it.

The point of skepticism, and for that matter, of science, is to look at "what is true", not "who is right". What someone a century ago thought about something tangental to their area of expertise is no more than an historical curiosity.

Just my opinion, but a reasoned one, Miss_Kitt

Thank you, Miss_Kitt. Reasoned, indeed!

 

[Furcifer]

WTF did Darwin say? That's what I wanted to know. I could care less what a few prejudiced ****s could say.

 

[jmcvann]

WTF did Darwin say? That's what I wanted to know. I could care less what a few prejudiced ****s could say.

Actually, in several dozen posts in this thread you've never come close to asking that question. You've just clearly expressed your outrageous insecurities.

It was my OP, and the question, in a nutshell, was "Is the writer [of the article cited] confusing early Darwinism and current evolutionary thought?"

Not that I'm complaining to anyone about the lack of responses to that question. The few who did address it basically said "Yes, she is." The resulting conversation has been entertaining and enlightening.

 

[Furcifer]

Actually, in several dozen posts in this thread you've never come close to asking that question. You've just clearly expressed your outrageous insecuritie.

Yep, I'm totally insecure about putting anything in my rectum. And I have no shame admitting it. Feel free to share your eperiences if you feel secure enough to do so!

edit: it's easy to talk insecurities behind an anonymous username. I'm just saying

 

[MikeSun5]

I think it's weird how whenever homosexuality is debated on forums like this, it's almost always a bunch of straight dudes discussing anal sex.

Why is that so odd?

I think it's odd because gay people are seldom involved in said conversations, and because contrary to what's been posted so far, homosexuality does not mean "anal sex." I personally know a few gay guys who aren't interested in it, and I doubt it's common among lesbians. But to read this thread, you'd think that anal sex is what homosexuality is all about.

It was my OP, and the question, in a nutshell, was "Is the writer [of the article cited] confusing early Darwinism and current evolutionary thought?"

Not that I'm complaining to anyone about the lack of responses to that question. The few who did address it basically said "Yes, she is." The resulting conversation has been entertaining and enlightening.

Don't you mean "The resulting conversation has been insanely off-topic?" ponderingturtle likes anal, 3bodyproblem does not. End of story? Guess not...

Let's try this again... I think the link was overlooked the first time because it didn't include any mention of butt-sex or cucumbers in vaginas. Sorry, friends.

The article's still really interesting, though...

 

[Furcifer]

I think it's odd because gay people are seldom involved in said conversations, and because contrary to what's been posted so far, homosexuality does not mean "anal sex." I personally know a few gay guys who aren't interested in it, and I doubt it's common among lesbians. But to read this thread, you'd think that anal sex is what homosexuality is all about.



Don't you mean "The resulting conversation has been insanely off-topic?" ponderingturtle likes anal, 3bodyproblem does not. End of story? Guess not...

Let's try this again... I think the link was overlooked the first time because it didn't include any mention of butt-sex or cucumbers in vaginas. Sorry, friends.

The article's still really interesting, though...

Too true.

It wasn't overlooked. There were some othe articles on the right that were equally interesting. Fucundity is very interesting. As a gene you would expect it to have died out years ago, unless there were other factors involved. This points to a reason why it hasn't.

 

[Roboramma]

You two have wallowed into a world of stupid here.

It's just a bunch of hand waving. If I guy isn't into oral, he isn't going to be comfortable with the thought of soemone else doing it.

What? Why not?

I don't like particularly spicy food, but I experience no discomfort when I find out other people are.

I'm not in to shopping, but I don't feel uncomfortable that other people (my girlfriend for instance ) like it.

Why would I feel uncomfortable about other people doing something that I don't happen to be in to?

 

[Roboramma]

lol, I'm not biting. You two have created so many strawmen and I'm on to you. Proper with a horse? A 12 year old? Barbra Walters? Who cares?

It is very clear that the reason you "won't bite" is that you don't have a consistent definition of "proper" to work with, and are afraid of being exposed for your hypocrisy.

 

[Furcifer]

It is very clear that the reason you "won't bite" is that you don't have a consistent definition of "proper" to work with, and are afraid of being exposed for your hypocrisy.

Um, no. Been running with vagina from the get go. Even before this thread. I think I was 14, maybe 15. Very consistent. Haven't swayed in that regards.

 

[Furcifer]

Why would I feel uncomfortable about other people doing something that I don't happen to be in to?

Google "two girls 1 cup: reaction" on youtube.

 

[jmcvann]

Yep, I'm totally insecure about putting anything in my rectum. And I have no shame admitting it. Feel free to share your eperiences if you feel secure enough to do so!

edit: it's easy to talk insecurities behind an anonymous username. I'm just saying

Challenge accepted. While I am essentially attracted to women, during my college years, out of curiosity, I took the occasional shot at playing for the other team. I found out that, long term, it wasn't for me. At the same time, there are no negative terms I can use for those experiences. I had some great orgasms and think I induced some great ones as well. Your turn...

And anonymous username? Seriously? Are you bright enough to decipher the deep code I've used in my screen name? Google what you glean and the city I'm from and you'll find me. The real true me. I ain't hiding anything, unlike, say, you.

 

[Furcifer]

Challenge accepted. While I am essentially attracted to women, during my college years, out of curiosity, I took the occasional shot at playing for the other team. I found out that, long term, it wasn't for me. At the same time, there are no negative terms I can use for those experiences. I had some great orgasms and think I induced some great ones as well. Your turn...

And anonymous username? Seriously? Are you bright enough to decipher the deep code I've used in my screen name? Google what you glean and the city I'm from and you'll find me. The real true me. I ain't hiding anything, unlike, say, you.

I stand corrected, and very much humbled by your honesty and forthcoming.

Is it insecurities? I don't think so. I think there are other things involved. Maybe I can get over my "uncomfortability". Say I do, does that make it any less of a deviant behaviour? I don't see how it does.

I think I've changed my mind. It doesn't bother me at all. It really doesn't take much getting used to. I'm pretty much comfortable with it. Thanks jmcvann

 

[MikeSun5]

Why would I feel uncomfortable about other people doing something that I don't happen to be in to?

Google "two girls 1 cup: reaction" on youtube.

Wow... he's got you on that, Robo...

 

[fuelair]

Just what did Darwin say about homosexuality?




That it was perfectly fine - especially on ships - but would likely remove your possiblity of reproduction if you were found practicing it in the Southern parts of the US - though congress with male or female non-human mammals was thoroughly de rigeur.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Seems there are different definitions that can be used for the word deviant depending on one's intended message. I do not have a great deal of trust in on-line info so I consulted my print copy of Webster's New World Dictionary.
The word "pervert" and its variants do not appear under any of the definitions of Deviant, Deviate, or Deviation in my copy. The printed definitions are actually pretty close to my prior understanding of the meaning of the word, and include "a turning aside, often only to a slight degree...esp. from what is considered normal in a group or for a society".

Look up pervert and see if it is defined as sexual deviant. You are claiming now that the phrase "sexual deviant" is not a synonym for pervert? And that calling someone a deviant is not a pejorative term?

As I said he is perverting the common usage of these words.

It could, or it could not. Depends on what one perceives the motive of the person using the term to be. The term pervert as used in this thread is your choice of words, not 3bodyproblem's. How should the readers of the thread perceive your motive in using this term?

That I got tired of him trying to use more polite abstracted terms that mean the same thing

Well, I am a redhead (or was before most fell out and the rest turned grey), and, based on my understanding of the term, I would consider my redheadedness to be a deviation from the norm, so, if you like, I am a deviant in that regard.. This certainly does not mean that I am bigoted against redheads nor do I consider them, as a group, to be perverts (although I have no doubt that some are).

Yes but when asked after calling homosexuals deviants, if he classed redheads as deviants he said no because it was genetic. So he certainly seems to be including some moral component into when he calls someone a devaint. By not classing redheads as deviants it shows that he would not be confortable classifying someone as a deviant for something they can't control. So again he is not using any consistent definition of deviant but rather switching between the 4 he cited which include being immoral behavior to

 

[ponderingturtle]

Exactly. You're dealing with an entirely different mindset here PT. I've been called a freak, It doesn't really bother me. I hope mt character sees me through. I hope my opinionated bias bigotry is overshadowed by my kindness and understanding. The interwebs not withstanding.

Ah the love the sinner hate the sin approach.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yep, I'm totally insecure about putting anything in my rectum. And I have no shame admitting it. Feel free to share your eperiences if you feel secure enough to do so!

And anyone who is secure in it is moraly wrong too, don't leave that out now.