Republicans FINALLY have their own health-care reform plan!!

[Thunder]

It is, in a very real way, a "scorched earth" tactic: either we run the show, or we'll do everything we can to shut the show down. In the short term, this might pay off for the GOP and their wingnut buddies in the Tea Party movement, but it will inevitably lead to a seriously screwed up & dysfunctional political process in this country for a long time to come.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

I believe they now realize that a plan will pass, and they don't want to be left behind, in the likelyhood that the plan actually does have some success.

if the plan starts to show benefits by mid 2011, and the GOP can't claim to have some involvement with that, the Dems will advertise it as a pure Democratic and Obama success, one that the GOP simply said "Nay" to.

 

[EireEngineer]

Obama's and the House and the Senate plans already have ideas for cost savings.

But sure, if the Republicans have some good ideas, throw it in the mix.

....just to be nice.

The Republican plan has been there for some time, but ignored by democraps. Way to go bi-partisan!

 

[Thunder]

The Republican plan has been there for some time, but ignored by democraps. Way to go bi-partisan!

untrue. there have been several GOP ideas of what to do. but never a unified, single plan.

reading is fundamental.

 

[MattusMaximus]

I believe they now realize that a plan will pass, and they don't want to be left behind, in the likelyhood that the plan actually does have some success.

Good point. Just look at how many conservatives now support Medicare and Social Security, but back when those programs were proposed they fought tooth & toenail against them.

if the plan starts to show benefits by mid 2011, and the GOP can't claim to have some involvement with that, the Dems will advertise it as a pure Democratic and Obama success, one that the GOP simply said "Nay" to.

Yup, and that will hurt the hell out of the GOP. Of course, if the plan flops, then the Dems will have a problem. Honestly, I think 2011 is going to be a bit too soon to see many returns one way or the other on something as big as health care reform - we won't likely start to see anything truly substantial on that front until well into Obama's second term (I'm optimistic )

 

[Thunder]

Of course, if the plan flops, then the Dems will have a problem.

yes. for the most part, this bill will be the Democrats baby. if it starts screwing up big time, we are toast in 2012.

...that's unless Palin is the Republican nominee for President. in that case, we are solid through 2024.

 

[drkitten]

I've seen little to indicate the 1000+ page monstrosity that is the Baucus plan is a "good" bill.

Well, I can well imagine that. Given that the people whose opinions align with yours have specifically avoided working in any constructive way on the bill, it's not surprising that it doesn't reflect what you would want.

Or to put it another way, Congress can't take their concerns into account if they don't offer any concerns and prefer to burble about "socialism" and "death panels." Having spent most of the summer deliberately making themselves irrelevant in the discussion of the terms of the bill, the Republicans can hardly complain about having been treated as an annoying irrelevance.

This is Congress, not a courtroom. And Obama has made it clear he wants a bipartisan bill.

He has. But he's also made it clear he wants a bill quickly, and at this point he won't get both.

But frankly, IMHO the whole bill should be scrapped and rewritten.

... and there's the one sentence summary of why the Republican input will -- and should -- be ignored as a delaying tactic.

 

[leftysergeant]

The Republican plan has been there for some time, but ignored by democraps.

Yeah. The plan has been to torpedo anything Obama tries to do. Party first, country when they get around to paying back their donors.

 

[wastepanel]

Really? Congress can't write laws opening up competition, such as allowing insurance companies to sell policies in all states? They can't favor low-cost, high-outcome hospitals over others? They can't make hospitals list their prices publicly, as well as survival rates and other outcome indicators? They can't rewrite the tax code to get away from employer-based coverage? Encourage tort reform (not caps)?

There's no end to the things they could do, it's just a matter of wanting to do it. If it requires GOP input so be it. Fixing our pathetic health delivery system shouldn't be forever mired in political muck.

This is the one question that is really dogging me:

Health insurance companies are not allowed to sell health insurance over state lines, yet we want to create a national healthcare plan that can be sold all over the US. Is the public option subject to these rules, or is it going to have to be broken up for each state, or are these laws repealed with the measure? Nobody's been able to give me any guidance, including congressmen.

The option that I would be most interested in would be to create an "In network" of hospitals for the public option. I think we have the network already in place if we utilize free clinics and VA hospitals to do it. Any person signed up for the government option would get an "in network" pricing for the care at these facilities, and if wanting additional care, could pay the "out of network" pricing elsewhere. It seems like the only fair way of doing stuff.

And, yes, you are right. The plans going forward are garbage. At what point are we going to tell people that a single person working at McDonalds (who the government is worried about) is still going to have to come up with $200 per month for health insurance?

 

[applecorped]

Party first, country when they get around to paying back their donors.

This applies to both parties.

 

[drkitten]

This applies to both parties.

Really? Who are the big Democratic donors who are pushing for a public option, then?

I mean, I understand the almost reflexive need when someone makes a legitimate criticism of one side to say "but the other side does it, too." After all, it's the only response you CAN make if the criticism is in fact legitimate. But let's make sure that the other side does in fact do it, too.

 

[AlBell]

....its almost as if they don't actually want health care reform, or simply want Obama and the Democrats to fail, just for the sake of it and for the 2010 races. ...

Quite a large number of voters, many who also have existing health care coverage, appear to agree with that view.

If you are impressed with the Post Office and your state DMV you'll love government run healthcare. No thanks from at least one voter.

 

[drkitten]

Quite a large number of voters, many who also have existing health care coverage, appear to agree with that view.

Quite a large number of voters also wanted to see John McCain as president. The majority of voters wanted to see Al Gore as president.

Despite this, their wants were roundly ignored, because they lost.

 

[applecorped]

Really? Who are the big Democratic donors who are pushing for a public option, then?

I mean, I understand the almost reflexive need when someone makes a legitimate criticism of one side to say "but the other side does it, too." After all, it's the only response you CAN make if the criticism is in fact legitimate. But let's make sure that the other side does in fact do it, too.

Lefty:

"Party first, country when they get around to paying back their donors"

- read it slower.


p.s I'm rubber you're glue, anything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Pffft!!!!!

 

[Bob Klase]

untrue. there have been several GOP ideas of what to do. but never a unified, single plan.

Just a couple hours before writing that you wrote:

no, we have a WH plan, a Senate plan, and a House plan

Several GOP ideas = bad, not a single unified plan.

WH plan, Senate plan and a House plan = good, single unified plan?

reading is fundamental.

Starting with reading what you've written yourself.

 

[leftysergeant]

Lefty:

"Party first, country when they get around to paying back their donors"

- read it slower.


p.s I'm rubber you're glue, anything you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Pffft!!!!!

It seems that meanings bounce off your noggin without causing the firing of a single synapse.

Let me break this down for you.

"Party first..."

The first loyalty of a Republican in these troubled times is to his party, to restore what they see as the natural order, with the investor class making all the decisions as to what is best for America. For this reason they cannot let Obama succede on any terms, even on terms dictated by the ranting right.

"...country after they get around to paying back their donors."

After they have blocked health insurance reform so that their corporate donors do not lose money, they can get to some business that they think the country needs done. Given previous Republican tomfoolery, this will probably be something stupid like more tax relief for the investor class.

 

[stevea]

Oh.....NOW they have a plan!!! What took so damn long Republicans????

WTF - I downloaded a republican outline plan 6 or 8 weeks ago. There have been several floating around according to observers. Perhaps this one is formalized as a bill, so what. It will get ZERO attention from the Dems except for derision. Waste of effort.

"What took them so long?" is the wrong question. Why are they doing this at all, is the correct question. The Constitution clearly does not give the Federal government power to create manage and enforce a health care system. Social security is clearly over the line too, according to most scholars. So you are witnessing yet another shredding of the basis of our Republic in the name of populist sentiment.

Whenever politicians can whip 51% percent of the population into a panic then it's time to break the rules and run roughshod over the rights of others.

The "patriot act" is another turd-filled act aimed at expanding the power of the federal government and removing your rights. It removes the need for warants. It permits otherwise unlawful investigation methods. You might like to think you are "secure in your person or papers unless .." Unless you want to get on an airplane, or check out a library book, or use the phone or the internet.

Apparently tyrannical schmuck presidents willing to subvert the Constitution come in several colors.

 

[leftysergeant]

WTF - I downloaded a republican outline plan 6 or 8 weeks ago. There have been several floating around according to observers. Perhaps this one is formalized as a bill, so what. It will get ZERO attention from the Dems except for derision. Waste of effort.

True dat. Mostly because it sucks and is not a serious effort to do anything. It is just meant to run out the clock,

"What took them so long?" is the wrong question. Why are they doing this at all, is the correct question. The Constitution clearly does not give the Federal government power to create manage and enforce a health care system. Social security is clearly over the line too, according to most scholars. So you are witnessing yet another shredding of the basis of our Republic in the name of populist sentiment.

Bull flops. "Promote the general welfare.." You lose.

Now what freedom does universal health care take away from anybody except from the parasites who changed the health insurance business into a for=profit operation?

 

[sugarb]

http://www.gop.gov/solutions/healthcare

the health care plan has NOT been released. but these talking points have:

• Lowering health care premiums. The GOP plan will lower health care premiums for American families and small businesses, addressing Americans’ number-one priority for health care reform.

• Establishing Universal Access Programs to guarantee access to affordable care for those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP plan creates Universal Access Programs that expand and reform high-risk pools and reinsurance programs to guarantee that all Americans, regardless of pre-existing conditions or past illnesses, have access to affordable care – while lowering costs for all Americans.

• Ending junk lawsuits. The GOP plan would help end costly junk lawsuits and curb defensive medicine by enacting medical liability reforms modeled after the successful state laws of California and Texas.

• Prevents insurers from unjustly cancelling a policy or instituting annual or lifetime spending caps. The GOP plan prohibits an insurer from cancelling a policy unless a person commits fraud or conceals material facts about a health condition. It also prohibits insurance plans from instituting annual or lifetime spending limits.

• Encouraging Small Business Health Plans. The GOP plan gives small businesses the power to pool together and offer health care at lower prices, just as corporations and labor unions do.

• Encouraging innovative state programs. The GOP plan rewards innovation by providing incentive payments to states that reduce premiums and the number of uninsured.

• Allowing Americans to buy insurance across state lines. The GOP plan allows Americans to shop for coverage from coast to coast by allowing Americans living in one state to purchase insurance in another.

• Codifying the Hyde Amendment. The GOP plan explicitly prohibits all federal funds, whether they are authorized funds or appropriated funds, from being used to pay for abortion.

• Promoting healthier lifestyles. The GOP plan promotes prevention & wellness by giving employers greater flexibility to financially reward employees who adopt healthier lifestyles.

• Enhancing Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). The GOP plan creates new incentives to save for future and long-term care needs by allowing qualified participants to use HSAs to pay premiums.

• Allowing dependents to remain on their parents’ policies. The GOP plan encourages coverage of young adults on their parents’ insurance through age 25.


..promoting healthier lifestyles? what happened to freedom?????

this sounds like Socialism to me.

..Universal Access Program? another govt. program???

we don't need any more government programs!!!

What of these do you object to? Personally, I think probably the best place to start is by doing exactly these things: access for people with pre-existing conditions, disallowing "dropping" people or capping lifetime benefits, limiting out of pocket expenses, and maybe even more importantly, allowing people to purchase insurance from other states. That last one alone should significantly decrease costs, as insurers are able to become more competitive, don't you think? Here where I live, we have wonderful plans that are affordable (through employers, not so much to buy privately), but where my sister lives, on the West coast, the plans offered aren't as good, and seem to cost more at that.

I think maybe this would be a terrific start, just those few things. I also think that promoting healthier lifestyles would be fantastic, although my Republican sister (the other is a Democrat) got quite angry when the governor of her state tried to implement healthier lifestyle programs (the governor was Republican). Oddly enough, healthy lifestyle promotion wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for corporations (particularly huge fast food chains), but the fact that Republicans are talking about the necessity of it is, I think, a very good sign.

If all else fails, we should be pleased to get at least these things through. And you know what? If across state competition becomes possible, and pre-existing conditions are no longer a problem, lifetime caps cease to exist, and policies can't just be "dropped", then there is a strong possibility that those of us who are willing to do it (and believe me, I'm willing) could afford to pay premiums for a family member or friend who can't manage it themselves for whatever reason.

No, it wouldn't solve every problem, but I think it would be a great start, especially seeing how insurers being able to compete nationally would go.

Don't you?

 

[applecorped]

"Party first..."

The first loyalty of a Republican Democrat in these troubled times is to his party, to restore what they see as the natural order, with the investor class making all the decisions as to what is best for America. For this reason they cannot let Obama succede on any terms, even on terms dictated by the ranting right.

"...country after they get around to paying back their donors."

After they have blocked health insurance reform so that their corporate donors do not lose money, they can get to some business that they think the country needs done. Given previous Republican tomfoolery, this will probably be something stupid like more tax relief for the investor class.

It seems to read just fine, thank you.

 

[leftysergeant]

It seems to read just fine, thank you.

Can't let you get away with that. The Democrats do not vote in lock step, without any real thought.