Split Thread General astrology discussion with Astro Teacher

[AvalonXQ]

People will believe whatever they want to believe.

What if someone "wants" to believe in whatever tests and experiences show them to be true?

 

[Astro Teacher]

No problem. I would prefer to keep as much of the discussion as public as possible (other than the test participants), as many people can help look for weaknesses in the protocol. Although posting in a moderated thread tends to be a little more tedious, what with the waiting period for posts to get approved and all, I think it would be best to keep all discussion relating to the protocol and your requirements in the thread I linked.


ETA: Whoops, you are already over there. Never mind!

Thanks. I am busy though. I had a brief break in astrological work, but must get back to it today and through the week. I try to give myself a couple of days off to get people's transits out of my head (you have no idea what this is like when you just want to chill out and watch a comedy and eat some chips.) Anyhow, I will be back and forth checking in, so please try to arrange things for me so I do not have my time wasted, I would appreciate that.

I can do about 4-5 personal transits a day. Most people think I have to read one single chart, but that's not so. For each person, I have to read a natal and progressed horoscope and daily transits. You would not believe the amount of complexities involved, so I prefer to deal with people who are not playing silly games because nothing pisses me off more than that from people who cannot even read their own transits from their own birth dates. If I have to do it, saying "thank you" helps for spending hours and hours, and days and weeks and sometimes months doing this complex work for people who cannot do this for themselves.

I sent along a list of the rules on the moderated thread. Let me know what's up with a PM when you can. Thanks.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Look, I get it. You think that all other astrologers are frauds, not the ones like you:



So all the tests in which the astrologers failed are not real astrologers like you and since your particular version of astrology can't be objectively tested, it can never be disproven. Again, your definitions. You have self defined "true"astrology but the vast majority of what is commonly practiced as astrology has been quite conclusively found to be bogus quackery in multiple controlled tests with the astrologers themselves agreeing the the protocol.

Let's get this straight Neally - there has never been ONE TEST of astrology that has proven anything conclusively - certainly not against it, and only mildly for it from some studies of researchers. Got That?

There is no way to confirm or deny the proof of evidence for, or against natal astrology. It cannot be done. Most astrologers who agreed to the protocol did so in tests that were faulty with results that are at best spurious, that continued debates into this time. If astrology was disproved - in the REAL world - then we would not even be talking about this right now.

How can you believe anything of conventional science these days? First coffee was bad for you, then good for you, then bad, then good. Chocolate was bad for you, then good, then bad, and so on. Wine was bad for you, then good, then bad, now good, oh, now its bad. A little alcohol was bad for you, then good, then bad, and so was marijuana, then bad, now good, then bad, then good again (for people with terminal conditions.) First Mars had no water, they are crazy to say it did, then a little water, maybe ice, then none, then some, then a little more, now there might have been rivers on Mars. The Moon did not have any atmosphere, then a thin one, no, not, it does not, then it does, oh, it may have a little water too, maybe. The Moon had no effect on tides, now it did, no, not that much, oh, it does, maybe more, maybe less, oh, a little more, then none, now it does for sure. Climate change was laughed at 20 years ago, it did not exist, ha ha silly silly people, then a little, no, not even that, then maybe, then wow, even more, and wow wow, some more, now it is everywhere, now not so much.

And on and on.

With this kind of conventional science just how can you say that anything is determined to be real from the sacred mouths of that sacred cow you call "science?"

Please. Stop blowing this wind in my ear.

 

[Nonpareil]

"You would believe in Jesus if you would just believe in Jesus." Where have I read that before?

Probably in, oh, I dunno, every single response to kurious_kathy I ever made.

 

[SumDood]

The growth of plants, the climate and weather, and events in history that correlate to past world transits... all this showed me that the ancients were right.

As for personal transits, years ago I once had a client come to me who said that he lost his keys while swimming at the beach. I asked him when this happened, where he went, and who was with him. I run time cycle charts on these dates against his own transits. I saw positions in his own personal transits relative to the present geographical transits that indicated that his keys were stolen from him by a person he knew.

I will not go into detail here about how I knew this because it is quite advanced, but the method is one that has been around for a long time and is known by experienced astrologers.

I triangulated his transits into the near future, running them into the days and weeks relative to his geographical position and told him that the person he knew would attempt to enter his apartment at a specific time and date when he thought his friend was not home.

Because he was scared, I helped him out by changing the geographic direction of observation of his apartment and waiting for a person to show up at the eastern position I noted.

The person, his friend, showed up, at night at the time and date I forecasted, and watched his friend's apartment. We were right behind him. He jumped when we confronted him, so we cornered him, asked him what he was doing there so late at night, and checked his pockets. My client found his keys. The guy was scared out of his wits and we told him that we were watching him watching his friend's apartment.

Is that the only prediction you have ever made? If not, how many others have come true?

 

[AvalonXQ]

How can you believe anything of conventional science these days?

If you use a computer, drive a car, watch TV, eat processed foods, have a house with electricity or running water, take medication of any kind -- the list goes on. If you do any of the above, then you should believe things of conventional science, being as it's conventional science that makes all of the above possible.
All of the examples you gave were from competing theories of new science, and more often than not, were actually situations where science was still sorting out the facts and media reported the results as though they were gospel.
The fact that media hype fills in gaps where science is still sorting stuff out is an indictment on our culture. If you want to claim science itself is totally unreliable, you're going to have to walk here (on foot) and say it to my face.

Oh, and make sure you're walking here on legs that haven't ever been looked at by a medical doctor.

 

[Astro Teacher]

If you use a computer, drive a car, watch TV, eat processed foods, have a house with electricity or running water, take medication of any kind -- the list goes on. If you do any of the above, then you should believe things of conventional science, being as it's conventional science that makes all of the above possible.
All of the examples you gave were from competing theories of new science, and more often than not, were actually situations where science was still sorting out the facts and media reported the results as though they were gospel.
The fact that media hype fills in gaps where science is still sorting stuff out is an indictment on our culture. If you want to claim science itself is totally unreliable, you're going to have to walk here (on foot) and say it to my face.

Oh, and make sure you're walking here on legs that haven't ever been looked at by a medical doctor.

Chemistry was invented by astrologers. Agriculture was founded and developed by astrologers. The Chaldean alphabet was invented by an astrologer (Abraham.) Electricity was discovered by an astrologer (Ben Franklin.) The heliocentric solar system was discovered by an astrologer (Copernicus.) The planetary laws of the solar system was discovered by an astrologer (Kepler.) The telescope was invented by an astrologer (Galileo) and the practice of medicine was invented by an astrologer (Hippocrates, who said, "A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician."

What you call "science" today came directly from its Mother - Astrology.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Which technologies that you mentioned requires astrological principles to function? Which of the inventors you mentioned relied on astrology to invent what we use today?
I can deny the principles of astrology and live in modern society with no hypocrisy. I cannot do the same for the principles of science.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Chemistry was invented by astrologers.

In the same way that that physicians who bled people invented organ transplant surgery. Just because superstition was given up gradually in favor of the scientific method does not validate the superstition.

Agriculture was founded and developed by astrologers.

Can you cite a source for this? I've never heard that the Neolithic Revolution has been credited to astrologers. Later, as agricultural practices grew more sophisticated, observation of seasonal patterns of planetary motion helped agricultural societies to plan ahead and increase efficiency, but this observation of the motions of the sun, moon and stars would be more properly termed "astronomy" than "astrology". If those responsible for creating the agricultural calendars also believed that they could predict the futures of individuals that does not mean that they were right.

The Chaldean alphabet was invented by an astrologer (Abraham.)

Pure myth.

Electricity was discovered by an astrologer (Ben Franklin.) The heliocentric solar system was discovered by an astrologer (Copernicus.) The planetary laws of the solar system was discovered by an astrologer (Kepler.) The telescope was invented by an astrologer (Galileo) and the practice of medicine was invented by an astrologer (Hippocrates, who said, "A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician."

Well Kepler called wrote that astrology was to astronomy as the foolish daughter of a wise mother. As to the rest: So what? this is just an argument from authority fallacy. Did the practice of astrology lead to any scientific discoveries? Are modern scientists likely to practice astronomy, or have they abandoned it as superstition?

What you call "science" today came directly from its Mother - Astrology.

No, what we today call science came from the practice of observation. And science has examined astrology and found no validity to it. Tell me, how many modern scientists place any stock in the practice of astrology? Do those who remotely explore the surfaces of other planets practice astrology? Do those unravel the mechanisms of our genetic coding practice astrology?

 

[Nonpareil]

Let's get this straight Neally - there has never been ONE TEST of astrology that has proven anything conclusively - certainly not against it, and only mildly for it from some studies of researchers. Got That?

Bare-faced lie.

There is no way to confirm or deny the proof of evidence for, or against natal astrology. It cannot be done. Most astrologers who agreed to the protocol did so in tests that were faulty with results that are at best spurious, that continued debates into this time. If astrology was disproved - in the REAL world - then we would not even be talking about this right now.

Except that it makes money, and there's one born every minute.

How can you believe anything of conventional science these days? First coffee was bad for you, then good for you, then bad, then good. Chocolate was bad for you, then good, then bad, and so on. Wine was bad for you, then good, then bad, now good, oh, now its bad. A little alcohol was bad for you, then good, then bad, and so was marijuana, then bad, now good, then bad, then good again (for people with terminal conditions.) First Mars had no water, they are crazy to say it did, then a little water, maybe ice, then none, then some, then a little more, now there might have been rivers on Mars. The Moon did not have any atmosphere, then a thin one, no, not, it does not, then it does, oh, it may have a little water too, maybe. The Moon had no effect on tides, now it did, no, not that much, oh, it does, maybe more, maybe less, oh, a little more, then none, now it does for sure. Climate change was laughed at 20 years ago, it did not exist, ha ha silly silly people, then a little, no, not even that, then maybe, then wow, even more, and wow wow, some more, now it is everywhere, now not so much.

And on and on.

That is WHY you can trust science. Science is impartial. If it is wrong, it is because of human error and will be corrected.
And AvalonXQ has already - quite neatly - pointed out the hypocrisy of your views.

With this kind of conventional science just how can you say that anything is determined to be real from the sacred mouths of that sacred cow you call "science?"

Please. Stop blowing this wind in my ear.

Astro Teacher, there have been PLENTY of verified scientific advances. Vaccines. Evolution. Gravity, relativity, the Big Bang, geology, biology, chemistry, medicine... the list goes on. All of them can be shown to be correct through experimentation. So please, stop lying.

Chemistry was invented by astrologers.

Also a bare-faced lie.

Agriculture was founded and developed by astrologers.

Bare assertion. The origins of agriculture are so far back in history that no one knows who invented it. We can say "it started here, at this time" but no record exists of the professions of the first farmers.

The Chaldean alphabet was invented by an astrologer (Abraham.)

Bare assertion.

Electricity was discovered by an astrologer (Ben Franklin.)

Astronomer. Huge difference.

The heliocentric solar system was discovered by an astrologer (Copernicus.)

Astronomer.

The planetary laws of the solar system was discovered by an astrologer (Kepler.)

Astronomer.

The telescope was invented by an astrologer (Galileo)

Astronomer.

and the practice of medicine was invented by an astrologer (Hippocrates, who said, "A physician without a knowledge of Astrology has no right to call himself a physician."

Yes, but he also believed that the body consisted of four humors, and that by altering their balance changes in the health could be caused. :rolleyes
Seriously, Astro Teacher. Hippocrates said this because he believed that each part of the body was under the influence of a different celestial body. We now know that to be false.

What you call "science" today came directly from its Mother - Astrology.

No.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Bare-faced lie.



Except that it makes money, and there's one born every minute.



That is WHY you can trust science. Science is impartial. If it is wrong, it is because of human error and will be corrected.
And AvalonXQ has already - quite neatly - pointed out the hypocrisy of your views.



Astro Teacher, there have been PLENTY of verified scientific advances. Vaccines. Evolution. Gravity, relativity, the Big Bang, geology, biology, chemistry, medicine... the list goes on. All of them can be shown to be correct through experimentation. So please, stop lying.



Also a bare-faced lie.



Bare assertion. The origins of agriculture are so far back in history that no one knows who invented it. We can say "it started here, at this time" but no record exists of the professions of the first farmers.



Bare assertion.



Astronomer. Huge difference.



Astronomer.



Astronomer.



Astronomer.



Yes, but he also believed that the body consisted of four humors, and that by altering their balance changes in the health could be caused. :rolleyes
Seriously, Astro Teacher. Hippocrates said this because he believed that each part of the body was under the influence of a different celestial body. We now know that to be false.



No.

Calling a person a "liar" because you disagree does not constitute a valid argument. Back on ignore Pure_Argent. I gave you a chance and you blew it. Bye.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Calling a person a "liar" because you disagree does not constitute a valid argument. Back on ignore Pure_Argent. I gave you a chance and you blew it. Bye.

I hope Pure continues his thoughtful responses to your unsupported claims; they're very informative to me.

 

[Astro Teacher]

In the same way that that physicians who bled people invented organ transplant surgery. Just because superstition was given up gradually in favor of the scientific method does not validate the superstition.


Can you cite a source for this? I've never heard that the Neolithic Revolution has been credited to astrologers. Later, as agricultural practices grew more sophisticated, observation of seasonal patterns of planetary motion helped agricultural societies to plan ahead and increase efficiency, but this observation of the motions of the sun, moon and stars would be more properly termed "astronomy" than "astrology". If those responsible for creating the agricultural calendars also believed that they could predict the futures of individuals that does not mean that they were right.


Pure myth.


Well Kepler called wrote that astrology was to astronomy as the foolish daughter of a wise mother. As to the rest: So what? this is just an argument from authority fallacy. Did the practice of astrology lead to any scientific discoveries? Are modern scientists likely to practice astronomy, or have they abandoned it as superstition?


No, what we today call science came from the practice of observation. And science has examined astrology and found no validity to it. Tell me, how many modern scientists place any stock in the practice of astrology? Do those who remotely explore the surfaces of other planets practice astrology? Do those unravel the mechanisms of our genetic coding practice astrology?

You ought to read more. You also would be very surprised just how many scientists not only place stock in astrology, but practice it themselves.

 

[Nonpareil]

Calling a person a "liar" because you disagree does not constitute a valid argument. Back on ignore Pure_Argent. I gave you a chance and you blew it. Bye.

I don't call you a liar because your opinions differ from mine. I call you a liar because you lie. I even linked to the source of the information which proved you a liar.
You're just digging yourself deeper into the little hole of non-credibility that you started in. Here's a hint: when you hit China, stop.

You ought to read more. You also would be very surprised just how many scientists not only place stock in astrology, but practice it themselves.

If there are so many, you should be able to name a few. I think you'd be surprised at a) how few there really are and b) how little credibility they have.

 

[Astro Teacher]

Which technologies that you mentioned requires astrological principles to function? Which of the inventors you mentioned relied on astrology to invent what we use today?
I can deny the principles of astrology and live in modern society with no hypocrisy. I cannot do the same for the principles of science.

And, so what? Just because you "deny" it does not mean those principles are not operational all around you. What hubris!

 

[Nonpareil]

And, so what? Just because you "deny" it does not mean those principles are not operational all around you. What hubris!

Just because you say that they're in operation does not mean that they actually are. What hubris!

ETA: Thanks for the support, Avalon. I'm not going to stop. If I beat my head against this brick wall long enough, it WILL come down!

...plus I'm into masochism.

 

[AvalonXQ]

And, so what? Just because you "deny" it does not mean those principles are not operational all around you. What hubris!

If the principles are operational all around me, we should be able to SEE them.
I'm not particularly concerned with the operations of principles that have no observable effects.
The neat thing about science is that I don't have to take anyone's word for it -- I can see it working for myself, as can anyone else.

 

[AvalonXQ]

...plus I'm into masochism.

We already knew that from your... other affiliations.

 

[KingMerv00]

And, so what? Just because you "deny" it does not mean those principles are not operational all around you. What hubris!

He isn't right because he denies it. He denies it because he is right.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

You ought to read more. You also would be very surprised just how many scientists not only place stock in astrology, but practice it themselves.

I sure would be. Name a couple.