Tarot cards, they are AMAZING!

[dlorde]

Some rambling speculation:
My limited understanding of the Tarot is that it functions much like the I-Ching (Book of Changes), where effectively random selections are made from a number of extremely vague suggestions or statements on various themes that may be interpreted in any number of ways. When some life question, problem, or event is contemplated in the light of such suggestions, they provide useful hooks for the 'subconscious' to latch on to, so there is a good chance that the interpretation of these will, to some extent, reflect some aspects of the needs, desires, preferences, etc., that the subject is not necessarily consciously aware of. With the Tarot, the reader uses cold reading to tailor the card meanings to the subject's circumstances and help indirectly elicit the subject's interpretation. It seems to me related to the idea of tossing a coin on a difficult decision and making the decision depending on whether you want to go 'best of three' or not... it can help reveal inner preferences masked by confusing superficial influences, such as social or peer pressure, limited rational analysis, etc.

If you do Tarot readings for friends & relatives, I would guess that your results might appear to be more accurate than for strangers, because you don't need so much cold reading, you can interpret the 'meanings' of the cards based on a more intimate knowledge of the subjects.

ISTM the success or survival of these things is partly because, when used sympathetically, they can give the subject some awareness of the 'deeper' motivations, preferences, drives, desires, etc. that they are not normally conscious of. The woo and flim-flam around these techniques plays an important role in providing an environment where the more rational conscious awareness can be distracted and allow the stuff we're not so consciously aware of to percolate out. It also makes them ideal material for scammers, cheats, entertainers, etc., who can use the suspension/distraction of rationality and the force of belief in the readings to be powerfully persuasive to their own advantage. This is the other reason for their survival...

 

[MrErisian]

Just looking through the string, few unanswered questions I wanna clear up...

what plans do you have for when you "see" something important and possibly life threatening for a recipient of one of your readings?

I think this is where many step over the line.

Nah, I'd just lie about it and ignore whatever it was I'd noticed. I don't take them seriously enough to bum anyone out like that. It'd be upsetting if the thing I saw then did happen though...

That said, the readings I do for this experiment we're now organising will be 'no holds barred' so to speak.

I think there are several methodologies), so could you please explain, in as much detail as possible, what is a reading?

I've been using three types - Journey of The Fool (potentially ironic title), Celtic Cross and another one using four cards which I don't know the name of. It's the Celtic Cross readings I'm most impressed by but the four card thing that is the most specific.

I'm curious, exactly which combination of cards means "will be offered two jobs at once"?

It was a self reading and it was a reversed card that symbolised disorder in answer to my question - how will my job prospects work out (?), or something like that. Not got my notes infront of me. There was another card saying I would be successful (Ace of Pentacles) and another talking about balancing things (Two of Pentacles). Can't remember the other one, think it was a four card draw. Not sure, will have to double check all that if you're after the names of the cards.

My summary of them working together was that I was going to get both of the jobs I was aiming for at once.

I just feel that you're a little more into it than you're letting on.

Err, ok. Not much I can do about that. I'm being honest with you.

You have no friends with any health issues??

No, not that I'm aware of.

Either you have very few friends, or you are willing to be dishonest just to press your point.

Um, ok. I really am being honest with you. Thanks for the insult and/or the attack on my honesty there. Boy, I bet you're fun to party with!

Seriously, if I learn that Tarot cards ain't 'magic' it really won't ruin my day. I came here to suss out how and why they seem to work.

I'll only post the link to my super duper pay per reading tarot card website once I've got you lot all duped hook line and sinker. You'll be delighted to hear about my 10% off offer for Randi fans I'm sure. <--- Just a joke obviously.

 

[MrErisian]

YOUR LAST POST

It's with this kind of logic that I got into tarot. Only, as you say, it's a sort of rambling vague 'it's something to do with the subconscious' explanation. I'm still open to the idea that, as you say, these things are unlocking my subconscious a little in the same way a Rorschach blot might, I guess.

 

[athon]

Um, ok. I really am being honest with you. Thanks for the insult and/or the attack on my honesty there. Boy, I bet you're fun to party with!

Just a small note - unfortunately you will run into a lot of people who will immediately be suspicious. They often do have reason to - hang around here long enough and you start to see the same pattern occurring, where a person pops up stating they're on the fence and are tentatively probing the skeptics, only end up having an obvious agenda.

By no means am I alleging that this reflects your motives. However, it's a common pattern here and obviously some people aren't quite as tolerant in terms of giving everybody the benefit of the doubt.

Good luck. I hope you've found a good place to start.

Athon

 

[Pup]

I also like Pixel42's suggestion. If you want an online participant, i'd be glad to do it.

Once the above are done me and the subject will then, in advance, work out the information we will be getting from the cards. This is pretty easy, they all fall into areas which denote information about a specific area. For example - the subject's hopes and fears as regards the question, the subject's history as regards the question, their conscious mind, etc etc. This information can be easily tested online with instant results.

Just out of curiosity, because I've never had any experience with tarot cards, how specific can this kind of thing be?

For example, my wife and I are planning a trip next year. There's one main thing that we've expressed some worry about.

How specific of an answer would you expect to give about hopes and fears? Let's say, hypothetically (this is totally made up, so the question could still be used in reality), we were worried about my membership in the Saddam Hussein Fan Club interfering with getting my passport.

If you or the cards really "knew" the answer in the normal sense of the word, you'd just say she's worried I won't get a passport because of my membership in a terrorist organization, or something like that. If that level of accuracy occurred repeatedly, it's what I'd consider stunning and incredible.

But fortune telling never seems to work that way.

Instead, would it be something like, you're worried that people in authority will hinder the trip--which could fit anything from being concerned about being strip searched by over-zealous TSA at the airport, to being worried because the hotel keeps losing our reservations.

Or would it be even vaguer, like, you're worried your plans won't go the way you want them to and the trip will need to be cancelled?

Just trying to get a feel for what a prediction would be like, and what you'd consider a hit in that hypothetical situation.

 

[Robert Oz]

It was a self reading and it was a reversed card that symbolised disorder in answer to my question - how will my job prospects work out (?), or something like that. Not got my notes infront of me. There was another card saying I would be successful (Ace of Pentacles) and another talking about balancing things (Two of Pentacles). Can't remember the other one, think it was a four card draw. Not sure, will have to double check all that if you're after the names of the cards.

My summary of them working together was that I was going to get both of the jobs I was aiming for at once.

I think the above explanation provides a perfect example of how the tarot cards work.

The meanings attributed to the cards are general and vague - disorder, success and balance. Your own intimate knowledge of the sitter and his current situation - in this case, you - allowed you to narrow the meaning down to something more specific. You were aiming for two jobs, with three possible outcomes - offers for both, an offer for one and no offers at all. You made an educated guess based on your own feelings about the jobs and your suitability for them.

Let's re-interpret the cards for other outcomes:

1. Offer for one, but not the other - the card symbolising disorder represents the ups and downs of going for jobs, you will have disappointing outcomes and promising ones. Ultimately, there will be success as the Ace of Pentacles suggests, but as with everything in life, there is a balance of wins and losses and you will not get an offer for the other job.

2. No offers - the card symbolising disorder represents the ups and dows of going for jobs, you will have disappointing outcomes and promising ones. Ultimately, there will be success as the Ace of Pentacles suggests, but you first need to learn inner balance and become confident in yourself, before you can move on to this next phase in your life. You, therefore, won't get a job immediately, but success will come in the end.

All possible outcomes can be read from the same three cards!

If I knew you better, I would pick one of these interpretations based on what I thought would be the result of your job interviews, but in the end it's just a guess. You picked the one you felt would be the most likely outcome, using the general descriptions of the tarot cards to arrive at a specific prediction based on your own intimate knowledge of yourself.

 

[dlorde]

I'm still open to the idea that, as you say, these things are unlocking my subconscious a little in the same way a Rorschach blot might, I guess.

That's exactly the sort of thing I'm thinking of. I don't necessarily believe that these things developed purely with that purpose in mind, but it seems plausible that they have survived because they can give a sense of clarification and even revelation (if only of unspoken thoughts).

 

[Fiona]

I agree, dlorde. I call it "putting tram lines in". The value (if any) is that you can lay out the cards; read the vague stuff; make an interpretation ( which you mostly will); and then you can say "oh so that was what I was thinking/ wanted to do.

 

[MrErisian]

I also like Pixel42's suggestion. If you want an online participant, i'd be glad to do it.

Excellent. You're our first volunteer.

Any more? I think we need about three people. I'm thinking we should ask a standard question for each person, something like 'what's my love life going to be like' or something like that.

How specific of an answer would you expect to give about hopes and fears? [...]
If you or the cards really "knew" the answer in the normal sense of the word, you'd just say she's worried I won't get a passport because of my membership in a terrorist organization, or something like that. If that level of accuracy occurred repeatedly, it's what I'd consider stunning and incredible.

But fortune telling never seems to work that way.

Instead, would it be something like, you're worried that people in authority will hinder the trip--which could fit anything from being concerned about being strip searched by over-zealous TSA at the airport, to being worried because the hotel keeps losing our reservations.

Depends on how hard the reader works to make it specific. I'm going to make the readings we do in the experiment as specific as possible but do remember I'm not (nor have I claimed to be) anything more than a dabbler. I'm not going to be using any sort of 'special powers' on my part. I'm going to be sticking to the definitions of the cards that come up and the positions they land in.

Who else is up for the test as agreed?

 

[Akhenaten]

Yeah, sign me up.

 

[dlorde]

Who else is up for the test as agreed?

I would, but I don't know the time of my birth - just the day. Is the time still a requirement?

 

[Marduk]

'there must be something init innit...'

corrected that for you

 

[Marduk]

Yeah, sign me up.

and me too, love to know how youre going to be able to make statements about my love life without resorting to something more along the lines of horror trumps

should be amusing

 

[dropzone]

I got told my sister wouldn't be impressed by the bloke she went on a blind date with. She wasn't.

It's VERY strange but my rational mind knows there must be an explanation which goes beyond coincidence. What is it? How do tarot cards work their 'magic'?

Do you have some belief in the efficacy of the blind dating process that would convince you that "my sister wouldn't be impressed by the bloke she went on a blind date with" is some magical exception rather than the likely outcome? You do know that blind dates are generally between people who have trouble getting dates otherwise and, though in movies the people are beautiful and witty but too busy, between their high-paying jobs and their charity work, to find dates through normal means, in real life the people are as unimpressive as everybody else, or worse, right? So this particular "hit" is in much the same neighborhood as a prediction that the sun will come up tomorrow: obvious and therefore worthless.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Hey, if you don't have enough volunteers, I'm in. I have some momentous decisions coming up within about 45 days and could certainly use some help from The Beyond.

 

[godless dave]

I got told my sister wouldn't be impressed by the bloke she went on a blind date with. She wasn't.

Surely that particular prediction isn't very noteworthy.

 

[fromdownunder]

Excellent. You're our first volunteer.

Any more?

I will happily sign up for an on-line Tarot card reading.

Norm

 

[arthwollipot]

I believe that I can speak with a certain amount of experience on this subject, having been a Tarot/Rune reader for many years during my neopagan phase. I still have my cards and drag them out every now and again. They're anything but a game, in my opinion, but let me explain why before anyone jumps in.

First thing I will say here is: pay attention to athon. He's a really smart guy, and he's hit the nail right on the head from his first post in this thread.

Now.

The "power" of Tarot (such as it is) is the power of symbolism. I like to use a deck with detailed illustrations, such as the Rider-Waite, or my personal favourite Norse Tarot. Each card has a situation illustrated on it, and when you draw these out randomly, you make connections between them. That's what people do - they make patterns.

Each card has a carefully-constructed story associated with it - or rather, part of a story. You need very little assistance to link these independent story pieces together, and even less to relate it to something in your own life - especially if you approach the subject with an a priori assumption that it is going to relate to your life, which each and every querent does.

It has been my experience that the stories generated randomly by the Tarot have a tendency to illuminate, or clarify, someone's thinking on a subject. They're a assistant to decision making. Let me use an analogy.

When you flip a coin to make a decision, how many possible outcomes are there? Two? Wrong.

There are actually four possible outcomes to a coin-flip-assisted decision: a heads you like, a heads you don't like, a tails you like, and a tails you don't like. Flipping the coin helps you to decide what option you prefer by "forcing" you to take one or the other. How many times have you said "heads hamburger, tails salad", flipped heads and decided "you know what? I think I'll just have a salad," contrary to the result of the flip?

Tarot works the same way. By putting symbols in your way, you can identify options and make decisions that you otherwise would vacillate over, or be ambivalent about.

Tarot, like a coin flip, is a decision-making tool. Should I quit my job because I hate my boss? Nine swords suggests that you're overreacting to the situation. Five coins indicates possible financial difficulties. The Sun shows that there is a brighter future ahead. Okay, I won't quit my job.

Can the Tarot predict future events? It depends on what your definition of predict is. Certainly it can form part of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I didn't quit my job because of what the cards said, and now the boss I hate has retired. Did the cards predict that? It depends on your interpretation. Certainly the "brighter future" would not have happened if I had ignored the cards and quit my job, and then I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But the fact that humans are pattern-makers, and the well-known phenomenon of confirmation bias, means that I will attribute more meaning to the cards than is inherent in the images alone.

 

[MrErisian]

We've now got six volunteers for the test.

I think we need to agree a standard question. It has to be one that all six could ask for in a normal reading. I was thinking something like - What's the situation with my love life over the next month?

Any thoughts?

 

[Sun Countess]

If more volunteers are still needed, I'm willing.