UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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I think [snip]
You avoided my question again, I am quite determined to get an answer from you. Even if I have to repeat this question for years.

Again:

For many years stealth technology was completely unknown to the public. If Rramjet lived in that time period he would have concluded that any UFO sightings without radar returns was proof of Alien technology. How about YOU?
 
More evidence

Jet 1
The pilot on duty (name not known to this writer) responded to the scramble order. He took off at 1:30 AM at his fastest takeoff speed (… and woke up Henry!). He spotted the UFO soon after because it was bright enough to be seen from 70 miles away. He proceeded to a point about 40 miles north of Tehran. Hossain Pirouzi acted as an intermediary, relaying Youssefi’s orders to the pilot. The General ordered the pilot to get as close as possible to determine the shape of the object but to do nothing else (no order to attack). It appeared to now be as high as 12,000 ft. According to the pilott, as he approached at more than the speed of sound the object sped up to stay ahead. He described it as “half the size of the moon as seen from earth” and “it was radiating violet, orange and white light about three times as strong as moonlight.”

(…)
According to Pirouzi, while the jet was about 150 miles from Tehran, the object appeared over the city again, having beaten the jet back to the city. The pilot, now flying westward, again approached the object. He reported to Pirouzi that every time he closed on the object it affected his radio and all his instruments. According to Pirouzi, “….his engines were working normally, the lights on the instrument panel were working but all his navigation aids were out…” Youssefi ordered him to close again to get a better view. This time, according to the Air Force teletype message (see below) of Lt. Col. Mooy, when he got to a range of about 25 nautical miles (about 29 statute miles; 1 nm = 6077 feet), he “lost all instrumentation and communications (UHF radio and intercom).” [Note: the intercom allows communication between the pilot in the front seat and the radar operator in the back seat of the aircraft.] Pirouzi reported that “ … at one point as he was talking to me, his radio went dead completely as he got close to the object.” By this time he was running low on fuel so he broke off the chase and headed back toward Shaharoki. According to the Air Force teletype message, “When the F-4 turned away from the object and apparently was no longer a threat to it the aircraft regained all instrumentation and communications.”

Jet 2
According to the Air Force teletype message, based on the interview of the second pilot during the following day, the “backseater acquired a radar lock on at 27 nm, 12 o’clock high position with the VC (rate of closure) at 150 mph. As the range decreased to 25 nm the object moved away at a speed that was visible on the radar scope and stayed at 25 nm.”

(…)

The plane tried to pursue the object while flying south of Tehran. According to Pirouzi the pilot reported that he couldn’t easily follow the track of the object because it would change its position very fast, appearing at one location and then suddenly at another location,

(…)

The pilot put the “pedal to the metal” and reached a speed of about Mach 2 (1,500 mph or 25 miles per minute) and still couldn’t catch it. He was flying toward the Afghanistan border, about 500 miles east of Tehran. Youssefi ordered him to return to Tehran if he couldn’t catch it, so he turned and headed back eastward. The object also reversed direction and began to chase the plane. In a short section of an audio tape recording (I presume made at the Air Traffic Control Center at Mehrabad) that was published in a local newspaper (see below), Jafari reported “something is coming at me from behind. It is 15 miles away…now ten miles…now five miles…It is level now…I think it is going to crash into me…It has just passed me by..missing me narrowly..” According to the newspaper report, “The disturbed voice of the pilot was clear on the tape. He then asked to be guided back to base.”

As the second jet attempted to close on the object it suddenly emitted a smaller bright object, and this object headed toward the jet. According to the Air Force teletype message, “The object and the pursuing F-4 continued a course that was south of Tehran when another brightly lighted object estimated to be 1/2 to 1/3 the apparent size of the moon, came out of the original object.

This second object headed straight toward the F-4 at a very fast pace. The pilot attempted to fire an AIM-9 (heat seeking) missile at the object but at that instant his weapons control panel went off and he lost all communications (UHS and intercom). At this point the pilot initiated a turn and a negative G dive to get away. As he turned the object fell in trail at what appeared to be about 3-4 nm. As he continued in his turn away from the primary object the second object went to the inside of his turn and then returned to the primary object for a perfect rejoin.”
(http://www.brumac.8k.com/IranJetCase/)

NO-ONE can now saw they have seen NO evidence from me... there is a LOT more but you really should read the WHOLE report for yourselves!
 
You avoided my question again, I am quite determined to get an answer from you. Even if I have to repeat this question for years.

Again:

For many years stealth technology was completely unknown to the public. If Rramjet lived in that time period he would have concluded that any UFO sightings without radar returns was proof of Alien technology. How about YOU?

READ the report. Your contentions are wrong. READ the report.
 
Rramjet,
I do not refuse to deal with it. You have been shown why it isn't evidence of aliens. It is, at best, evidence of "unknown". The words DO NOT MEAN THE SAME THING. Get a dictionary. Just because you do not know what something was does NOT magically turn it into an alien.
To prove an alien you need at the VERY LEAST more than one picture from more than one source.
UFOs are not evidence of aliens, they are evidence of things in the sky that have not been identified.
See the pattern here?
You can disprove from now til the end of time, but NOTHING YOU SAY NEGATIVE proves your point or even advances it.
You must prove your point for you to win
We do not need to disprove it - you start from the position of FAIL since you are arguing against science and rational thought, and you must overcome that to consider you won.
Provide evidence of aliens - or admit you can't. And no, we will not accept redefining unknown to be the same as aliens.

As I said in the past - you are a liar here just to "win". You have no intention of supporting your position and never did. You just wanted to claim a victory by getting people to say that they were tired of asking you for the evidence you never had.
 
Rramjet,
You can produce UFOs from now til the end of time. That does not provide evidence of aliens. UFOs, by definition, are unidentified. Unidentified DOES NOT MEAN ALIENS. Use a dictionary if you must. The words really do have different meanings, I'm not joking.
 
Travelling light and fast here (can't pack too much stuff inside a TR-1F); in a couple of days I'll reply Snidley's post and make some other comments. I see, however, that other posters already got my points.
Live long and prosper.
 
Rramjet said:
I would then ask you to comment on THIS case:

Tehran UFO Incident (19 Sep 1976)
If you want to make a case that this UFO is of alien origin you have to show that the aliens have access to the kind of technology necessary to perform as described in your articles. You also have to show that alien bases were located within flying distance of Teheran. Otherwise your speculation has no merit. Thank you in advance.

Just a gentle reminder.
 
To Rramjet:

You can suppose what you want but I think you need to provide some proof for these assertions or admit you just pulled them out of some body orifice.

So in summary:
How do you come to 10%?
How do you conclude that it is a large margin?

And another reminder on my questions, pending answers.
 
Who's talking about baloons and how high they can go? Building strawmen are we? There are other objects that go high ya know.

Meteors travel too fast? How much faster then the measured speed of the observed object? Oh right, they couldn't measure the speed...

You seem to have missed this post too while congratulating yourself to an imaginary win.
 
While you're busy finding answers, here are some more you've ignored:
First: that the case is well documented (ie: it was not merely "a figment of someone's imagination")
How does that make it alien?
Second: it has Iranian Airforce jets chasing a UFO and THEN being chased by the UFO!
How does that make it alien?
Third: The object itself is ENTIRELY "weird" (unlike ANYTHING that could be labelled a "blimp"
How does that make it alien?
Fourth: There was radar confirmation of the object as well as multiple witnesses (not to mention the pilots)
How does that make it alien?
Fifth: the UFO(s) was able to affect its' surroundings (ie; the instrumentation and functionality of the fighter jets)
How does that make it alien?
Sixth: The UFO(s) seemed to exhibit intelligent control - (fleeing, affecting, and chasing)
How does that make it alien?
Seventh: I note also that the Iranian UFO exhibited many characteristics that preclude mundane explanations
How does that make it alien?

Thanks in advance.
 
Last night someone broke into my house and stole all my furniture...

... Then they replaced it all with exact replicas.

If you can not disprove this, then it really happened and I don't have to supply any evidence to prove it happened.
 
Just a gentle reminder.

So you don't see anything unusual in the case?
Nothing about the behaviour of the UFO strikes you as ...odd?
Nothing at all?
The fact that it can shape-shift does not bother you for example?
I cannot believe that you can be that incurious...
 
Last night someone broke into my house and stole all my furniture...

... Then they replaced it all with exact replicas.

If you can not disprove this, then it really happened and I don't have to supply any evidence to prove it happened.

Then I would simply ask you to show me evidence that they did so.
If you make an assertion you need to support the claim with evidence.

THAT is SUCH a basic concept...ugh..

So I guess it IS true then... though it does disappoint me a little ...JREF has simply NO rational arguments to put forward when discussing UFOs.
I guess I HAVE won the debate after all.
 
The fact that it can shape-shift does not bother you for example?
I cannot believe that you can be that incurious...

Being interesting/curious does not make it an alien. Makes it interesting/curious. Like an elf or a faerie. Hm - they are magical - they have powers we don't understand. I bet that is what it was!
Thank you for proving elves and faeries exist! I'm so excited!
 
So you don't see anything unusual in the case?
Nothing about the behaviour of the UFO strikes you as ...odd?
Nothing at all?
The fact that it can shape-shift does not bother you for example?
I cannot believe that you can be that incurious...

You're the one claiming that this is indicative of an alien ship. All I ask is that you prove that the aliens have access to the kind of technology necessary to perform as described in your articles. You also have to show that alien bases were located within flying distance of Teheran. Otherwise your speculation has no merit. Thank you in advance.
 
Then I would simply ask you to show me evidence that they did so.
If you make an assertion you need to support the claim with evidence.

THAT is SUCH a basic concept...ugh..

So I guess it IS true then... though it does disappoint me a little ...JREF has simply NO rational arguments to put forward when discussing UFOs.
I guess I HAVE won the debate after all.

How? You have made a ton of assertions, backed up by other people making assertions, and ZERO evidence.
Just because you say that someone else said that they got a report from a random hillbilly that they shot at owls that didn't look quite right, we should all thank you for revealing that you are so gullible you would go to a fortune teller and expect useful info?
How many times do we need to tell you:
UNKNOWN DOES NOT MEAN ALIEN
 
To Rramjet:
And another reminder on my questions, pending answers.

Considering the Askania theodolite used can be read down to 1 arc second (http://www.dehilster.info/index.php...ster.info/instrumenten/theodolite5/index.html) then the accuracy of the instrument exceeds what was needed to resolve 30ft objects at 150000 ft. Therefore the actual degree of error in those calculations were very small.

The baseline distance measurement error - between both sighting positions - is hard to estimate, but it is almost impossible to imagine that they could have been more than 1 or 2% out there.

Time measures... well accuracy here was measured in less than 100ths (if not thousandths) of a second so the overall error in time would have negligible affect on overall calculations...

So all in all the 10% error figure provides an overly generous allowance for error in the calculations if anything. And this WAS made so large to show that even WITH such an error margin, the calculations indicated that whatever was up there... it was NOT manmade.
 
There is no proof it could shape shift.
There is only evidence to show someone thought it could.

Big difference.

Perhaps you should READ the report then... there were multiple witnesses to the shape-shifting, including witnesses using binoculars.
 
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