9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Nonpareil]

Are you sure? Regarding Auschwitz today everybody refers to the 'gaschambers', not to the crematoria. There is nothing homocidal about crematoria; crematoria are used to 'treat' already dead people. It is the gaschambers were the real evil resides. So why would survivors refer to crematoria rather than gaschambers? I have never heard them doing that. You are mistaken.

Crematoria, perhaps not, but ovens, yes.

That's a contradictio in terminus and you know it. An autobiography is a detailed truthful account of one's life, a novel is something that was fabricated. You can't have it both ways. And I hope that our resident holocaust scholar of 8 years is aware of the fact that this pathetic liar never was in either Auschwitz or Buchenwald.

Is a "fictional historical document" a contradiction in terms? Literally, perhaps, but it gets the point across rather well, and I don't believe that you are actually so stupid as to not realize what it means. Night was a fictional story portrayed as an autobiography.

Nick does not know it. May I invite him to a little journey to the review section of Night at Amazon?

Let's see how the American public reacts to this fictionalized 'autobiography' (first 3 items):

- Elie Wiesel's account of Nazi Germany left me stunned. Once I finished, I just sat there thinking about the book and realizing that it wasn't a work of fiction, but a true story.

- Ellie Wiesel makes the scenes so real that any reader can feel like they were living in the horrible and terrifying events.

- Wiesel's autobiographical account of 'life' in the concentration camps remains one of the ten most influential books I have ever read.

Overwelming number of positive responses. Everybody clearly thinks that this novel represents the truth, there are only a handful of sceptics. And the liar never was there at all. He sucked the story out of his sore thumb.

So?

 

[Lisa Simpson]

A bunch of posts have been moved to AAH. Play nice or I will close the sandbox.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[9/11-investigator]

In Dachau* the gas-chamber and crematorium is in the same building. The exit from the gas-chamber opens to the crematorium, convenient setup.

There is no exterminationist these days who still claims that there were ever 'gassings' in Dachau. You have tried to sell us this BS before. Could you please back up your claims with credible links?

From a distance the crematorium function is the obvious one due to the chimney and smoke while working.

Nobody denies that there was a functioning crematorium in Dachau. Camp Dachau had the size of a small town and the conditions at the end of the war were appalling. So they needed a crematorium because like in every town people die. And in Dachau a lot of people died: I believe 30,000 or so, all from the familiar causes: starvation and sickness but not from 'gassings'.

*The gas chamber there were mostly for training purposes.

Yeah, they practised year in year out on lice.

Can you back up this ridiculous claim with some credible source? Of course you can not.

Here is the famous Dachau gaskammer: http://www.revisionismo.net/de/lex/abb/dachaudesinfektion.jpg

You see some simpleton GI Joe reading the text: attention Gas! and Gaszeit (gassing time), followed by some timespan indication. It simply means that the text on the door warns you that the space behind the door is hazardous and that you should use the gaskammer say 2 hours to properly fumugate the cloths. Later at home in Cincinnatti Joe will tell his wife that he say a gaschamber with his own eyes, 'honest honey'.

Can you imagine that: 400 Jews lining up before the door which says that there are going to be gassed and that they sheepish go in anyway? That's ridiculous. Although indeed attempts have been made to setup Dachau as an 'extermination camp', that idea has been long abandoned by any serious scholar. I am sure Nick can confirm that.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Crematoria, perhaps not, but ovens, yes.

Ahem. A crematorium is nothing else than 1 or more ovens. There is no difference between the two.

Is a "fictional historical document" a contradiction in terms?

Yes.

Night was a fictional story portrayed as an autobiography.

Correct. A lie (as in fictional story) sold as the truth (the essential element of any autobiography worth that name is historic truth). I am glad we finally seam to agree.

 

[Nonpareil]

There is no exterminationist these days who still claims that there were ever 'gassings' in Dachau. You have tried to sell us this BS before. Could you please back up your claims with credible links?

There were five gas chambers in Dachau. All but one were used for delousing of clothing, but one gas chamber still had homicidal gassings take place within.

Source.

Some more information on the subject.

Can you imagine that: 400 Jews lining up before the door which says that there are going to be gassed and that they sheepish go in anyway? That's ridiculous.

You neglect the fact that the guards were armed and the Jews were not.

Although indeed attempts have been made to setup Dachau as an 'extermination camp', that idea has been long abandoned by any serious scholar. I am sure Nick can confirm that.

Well, yeah, you're right on that score. Dachau wasn't set up to be an extermination camp. Killings did take place there (see above links), but it was designed as an internment camp rather than for the express purpose of killing.

 

[Nonpareil]

Ahem. A crematorium is nothing else than 1 or more ovens. There is no difference between the two.

Uh, you mean, aside from the fact that a crematorium is an oven used to incinerate dead bodies? You seriously need to start consulting a dictionary before you post.

Correct. A lie (as in fictional story) sold as the truth (the essential element of any autobiography worth that name is historic truth). I am glad we finally seam to agree.

Why did you snip the rest of my post? You completely mangled my point. Seriously. My point was that the use of the term "fictional autobiography" was meant to illustrate a point rather than being taken literally.
By the way, it's "seem", not "seam". For someone who's so obsessed with taking things literally, you certainly don't do well with definitions.

 

[9/11-investigator]

There were five gas chambers in Dachau. All but one were used for delousing of clothing, but one gas chamber still had homicidal gassings take place within.

Source.

Some more information on the subject.

Very good. Can you tell me the difference between the 'homocidal gaschamber' in Dachau and any room there, say storage room? How do we know this was supposed to be a gaschamber and not something some overzealous allies dreamed up just to make them selves feel good?

From your first link: The overcrowding of Dachau brought serious problems to the inmates, the most dangerous of which was lice-borne typhus.

that's interesting. The danger of typhus is acknowledged, which perfectly explains the presence of these fumugation gaschambers. Now why would the Germans install fumugation gaschambers (intended to save lives) and 'homocidal gaschambers' (to kill people) in one camp? That does not make sense.

The truth is: there was never a homocidal gaschamber in Dachau. They simply stated as a fact that some dummy room was used as one. More lies.

You neglect the fact that the guards were armed and the Jews were not.

You cannot control 400 people in death agony with 5 gunmen. But this is u futile discussion. I'll assume that you agree with me that the gaschamber from the picture I showed was a fumugation gaschamber.

 

[Trojan]

Are you sure? Regarding Auschwitz today everybody refers to the 'gaschambers', not to the crematoria. There is nothing homocidal about crematoria; crematoria are used to 'treat' already dead people. It is the gaschambers were the real evil resides. So why would survivors refer to crematoria rather than gaschambers? I have never heard them doing that. You are mistaken.

You are just putting your ignorance of the subject on display, the homicidal gaschambers were in the crematoriums -- its a bit like deniers claiming the Red Cross were not prohibitted from seeing the homicidal gas chambers, while in the same breath admitting the Red Cross were not allowed to see the crematoriums.

 

[Trojan]

Now why would the Germans install fumugation gaschambers (intended to save lives) and 'homocidal gaschambers' (to kill people) in one camp? That does not make sense.

Well, gee, let's see about this, camps like Auschwitz had both, and for a simple reason -- some people were killed immediately upon arrival or shortly there after.

Those who were not were expected to work, those that work had to be kept in reasonable health -- part of maintaining inmate health are things like hospitals, barracks and delousing (fumigation) chamber for inmate clothing.


you incredulity does not serve you well, best to leave it at the door

 

[Trojan]

Ahem. A crematorium is nothing else than 1 or more ovens. There is no difference between the two.

 

[dudalb]

A bunch of posts have been moved to AAH. Play nice or I will close the sandbox.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

It's time to put this thread out of it's misery.

 

[9/11-investigator]

[qimg]http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/projects/survivors/image005.jpg[/qimg]

Thanks for your support, Trojan.

As a reminder Auschwitz had at some point 150,000 prisoners. Epidemics were rampant. Under those circumstances you need this crematorium, to deal with the peaks in mortality.

According to the Red Cross...

http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/auschwitz-death-toll-arolsen-1.jpg

some 52,000 registered people died in Auschwitz in, what is it, 2-2.5 year. That's on average 60-70 people per day, with high peaks like thousands in a few weeks during epidemics. Than it's easy to see that you need these numbers of ovens. And it also becomes clear that it is sheer impossible to 'handle' 300,000 Hungarian Jews in 6-8 weeks time, as the story goes. A story also completely debunked by photographic evidence produced by allied air-photo's. Nothing to be seen. No lines before the 'gaschambers'. No smoke, no nothing.

 

[Kurse]

And it also becomes clear that it is sheer impossible to 'handle' 300,000 Hungarian Jews in 6-8 weeks time, as the story goes. A story also completely debunked by photographic evidence produced by allied air-photo's. Nothing to be seen. No lines before the 'gaschambers'. No smoke, no nothing.

Keepin' the line movin'. =/
And what if the gaschamber wasn't being used at that moment? What if it wasnt even the gaschamber?

 

[9/11-investigator]

It's time to put this thread out of it's misery.

Dudalb knows how this thread is going to end und pulls the emergency break.

You can delete this thread, you can ban me but you can not stop the discussion. We are going to have it anyway. We are not living in the Middle Ages anymore.

Free discussion and free inquiry in a civilized manner. Anybody against it? More than 60 years after the war?

 

[Kurse]

Dudalb knows how this thread is going to end und pulls the emergency break.
You can delete this thread, you can ban me but you can not stop the discussion. We are going to have it anyway. We are not living in the Middle Ages anymore.

Free discussion and free inquiry in a civilized manner. Anybody against it? More than 60 years after the war?

Once again, your not a narrator.
And we tried having one, but as you said before you are trying to hit our 'soft spots'.

Don't try to play the big man in this little boy. You have been far from civilized. Can say the same about myself, but hey, at least I say it.

 

[Trojan]

some 52,000 registered people died in Auschwitz in

Nazi logic, when you don't register them, you don't record their deaths, therefore they never died in the eyes of the intrepid investigator.

Why look further, its not like a murderer would try to hide their crimes

 

[Nonpareil]

Very good. Can you tell me the difference between the 'homocidal gaschamber' in Dachau and any room there, say storage room? How do we know this was supposed to be a gaschamber and not something some overzealous allies dreamed up just to make them selves feel good?

Thank you for so eloquently demonstrating that you failed to read either of the links.

Any doubts that this chamber is a gas chamber are rapidly dispelled upon viewing the exhaust vents on the ceiling of the room, the exhaust chimney on the roof, and the metal doors that are identical in design to those used by the disinfestation gas chambers. It would appear that the fake shower heads on the ceiling of the chamber , the sign over the door stating Brausebad (shower room) and the smooth brick finish simulating tiling (see below) were part of an elaborate ploy to make the victims believe they were going to take a bath after having deposited their clothes in the passageway connecting the disinfestation chambers with the homicidal chamber.

From your first link: The overcrowding of Dachau brought serious problems to the inmates, the most dangerous of which was lice-borne typhus.

that's interesting. The danger of typhus is acknowledged, which perfectly explains the presence of these fumugation gaschambers. Now why would the Germans install fumugation gaschambers (intended to save lives) and 'homocidal gaschambers' (to kill people) in one camp? That does not make sense.

Again, you show that you know nothing about the Holocaust and have not read the links I provided.

Prof. Gutman said that the evidence points to the fact that gassing did take place in Dachau, but that this never passed the experimental stage, and thus it cannot really be said that the gas chamber was used for killing in the sense in which, for instance, the Auschwitz gas chambers were. He added that the number of victims was (relatively) rather small. Prof. Gutman also said that these experimental gassings were carried out under the supervision of Dr. Rascher, who was in charge of the medical experiments in Dachau.

So not very many people - at least when compared to the other camps - were gassed at Dachau. Which is to be expected, as it was not an extermination camp. Dachau was an internment camp where Jews were held as prisoners and used as subjects in medical experiments, as well as a source of slave labor.

The truth is: there was never a homocidal gaschamber in Dachau. They simply stated as a fact that some dummy room was used as one. More lies.

Ironic, as this statement is itself a lie.

You cannot control 400 people in death agony with 5 gunmen.

Straw man much? There were many, many more than five Nazi soldiers at Dachau. The Jews in question were also starved and weak, while the Germans were fit and well-armed. Do you really think that a prison riot would have succeeded? While you consider, take into the fact also that the Nazis had towers around the camp from which to shoot, untouchable, at the Jewish people.

But this is u futile discussion. I'll assume that you agree with me that the gaschamber from the picture I showed was a fumugation gaschamber.

I might, if I were able to find it. Can you post a link to the post? It doesn't seem to have shown up recently.

It's time to put this thread out of it's misery.

You would treat the symptom but leave the disease rampant?

Thanks for your support, Trojan.

As a reminder Auschwitz had at some point 150,000 prisoners. Epidemics were rampant. Under those circumstances you need this crematorium, to deal with the peaks in mortality.

According to the Red Cross...

http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/...-arolsen-1.jpg

some 52,000 registered people died in Auschwitz in, what is it, 2-2.5 year. That's on average 60-70 people per day, with high peaks like thousands in a few weeks during epidemics. Than it's easy to see that you need these numbers of ovens. And it also becomes clear that it is sheer impossible to 'handle' 300,000 Hungarian Jews in 6-8 weeks time, as the story goes. A story also completely debunked by photographic evidence produced by allied air-photo's. Nothing to be seen. No lines before the 'gaschambers'. No smoke, no nothing.

I don't get how Trojan is in any way supporting you.
And as for your epidemic theory, do you have any evidence? As opposed to the German officials' own admission to the Holocaust killings? And even if it were disease which killed all the Auschwitz inmates, would that absolve the Nazis? After all, they're the ones who put them in such horrible conditions so close together with so little nourishment or warmth.

Dudalb knows how this thread is going to end und pulls the emergency break.

"Brake". It's "brake".
And anyway, yes, dudalb does see exactly where this thread is going. Nowhere. So he decides to shoot the horse with the broken ankle. It is in no way an admission of defeat; it is an admission of not wanting to deal with your blank wall of stubborn willing ignorance.

You can delete this thread, you can ban me but you can not stop the discussion. We are going to have it anyway. We are not living in the Middle Ages anymore.

No one is going to delete the thread - move it to AAH, if it gets any worse, maybe - and if anyone bans you, I will personally protest it mightily. While you yourself I could care less about, it's hard to demonstrate to the lurkers here the idiocy of Holocaust denial with no Holocaust denialists about to argue against.

Free discussion and free inquiry in a civilized manner. Anybody against it? More than 60 years after the war?

Nope. What makes you think we are?

 

[Doctor Evil]

T
some 52,000 registered people died in Auschwitz in, what is it, 2-2.5 year. That's on average 60-70 people per day, with high peaks like thousands in a few weeks during epidemics. Than it's easy to see that you need these numbers of ovens. And it also becomes clear that it is sheer impossible to 'handle' 300,000 Hungarian Jews in 6-8 weeks time, as the story goes. A story also completely debunked by photographic evidence produced by allied air-photo's. Nothing to be seen. No lines before the 'gaschambers'. No smoke, no nothing.

Most Jews arriving at Auschwitz were sent to their death almost immidiately. No one 'registered' them. The Nazi's saw no reason to register them. The only registered Jews where the one selected for forces labor.

Thus your numbers mean nothing, as you, probably intentionally, look at a misleading statistic. Keep digging.

 

[Belz...]

In Dachau* the gas-chamber and crematorium is in the same building. The exit from the gas-chamber opens to the crematorium, convenient setup.

Indeed. If gassing doesn't work to sanitize the clothes, you can burn them right away.

No, seriously, why in the blue Hell would someone build a building like that except for the express purpose of killing and then burning people ?

 

[Belz...]

Thanks for your support, Trojan.

As a reminder Auschwitz had at some point 150,000 prisoners. Epidemics were rampant. Under those circumstances you need this crematorium, to deal with the peaks in mortality.

Heh. So no matter what evidence is presented, you'll find a way to dream up some explanation why it isn't so. Perhaps it's time YOU showed some evidence that the historians are wrong, now ?

Dudalb knows how this thread is going to end und pulls the emergency break.

Amusing. Do you really think so highly of yourself as to think that you'll turn history on its head in this very thread and defeat decades of history just by hand-waving evidence ?