9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Kurse]

You express yours behind vocabulary. Two wrongs do not make a right, so I suggest you shut up about this and get back on topic.

 

[Vermonter]

We do not need to sway fool, just prevent others from believing his foolishness.

My goal here is not for him to see where he is wrong, but just to simply that he is wrong. Of course he has been prove wrong on many accounts, he just isn't admitting where he is uneducated.

In that respect then I heartily agree with you. I think people should see the kind of nonsense that others can put out. If nothing else, to at least let reality show brightly in the fog of time. A lot of people died needlessly. We should do our best to prevent it again.

 

[Belz...]

Oh my, that means that you are probably of the same caliber as PA.

Non sequitur.

Do you think you could perhaps participate in this debate without resorting to insults ?

 

[Belz...]

European means 'of Christian white heritage'.

Even in Greece ?

Seriously, 9/11, you'd have been more correct to say "African black heritage". At least that covers everybody.

 

[Kurse]

In that respect then I heartily agree with you. I think people should see the kind of nonsense that others can put out. If nothing else, to at least let reality show brightly in the fog of time. A lot of people died needlessly. We should do our best to prevent it again.

I'm glad you agree =D.

 

[Nonpareil]

Jontg... Jontg... is that not the same person who said:

"you walking abortion... There is no word in any language that can describe the knot of crackling, black hatred that boils up behind my eyes when I read your ********. Picture every death metal, grindcore, and screamo album ever produced, condensed into a single syllable and backmasked in a five-minute loop over the sound of you being hit by a train and torn apart by jackals, and you may perceive some mediocre reflection of it."

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148049&page=34
post 1327

That is quite possibly the greatest flame ever written. You have to hand it to jontq, 9/11, even if you are the one getting insulted; he knows how to throw down in the Vitriol Wars.

 

[Nonpareil]

I'm not the one playing games here, Investigator. You misrepresent, prevaricate, and slander your way through life, wallowing in self-indulgent, hateful delusions and branding those who question your dogma as sheep to further bloat your runaway ego and glorify your thuggish Fuhrer. Which is not to say that you shouldn't respect him--he does you a service by making you look sane, rational and almost possessed of a scrap of ethical integrity.
Let me lay this out very plainly, you walking abortion. The original paperwork consigning over twelve million people to death is still there. The recorded testimonies, from both victims and perpetrators, are still there. The camps themselves, special airtight de-lousing chambers and all, are still there. And in a little village in the north of Israel, called Sha'ar Menashe, you can still speak to people who lived through it only in the most technical of terms. People who were just children when they went to the camps, and who never came out. Post-traumatic stress disorder is the technical term for it; they live in the camps, Investigator--they live trapped in the nightmare that you deny ever happened day in and day out, every moment of their lives a microcosm of the suffering that creatures like you inflicted on them, suffering that will never end as long as they live. They are still there!
There is no word in any language that can describe the knot of crackling, black hatred that boils up behind my eyes when I read your ********. Picture every death metal, grindcore, and screamo album ever produced, condensed into a single syllable and backmasked in a five-minute loop over the sound of you being hit by a train and torn apart by jackals, and you may perceive some mediocre reflection of it.
ETA: I think my hate for you just killed Ted Kennedy. I hope you're happy. Oh, wait, he was Catholic, of course you're happy.

Here's the full flame in all its furious glory. The last line made me laugh.

 

[Jontg]

Actually, here Investigator gives us a perfect demonstration of his modus operandi. He uses both the simple fact that he's a Holocaust denier and his constant forecasting of America's doom by way of moral/racial/societal decay to provoke flames, which both give him the attention he craves and allow him to set himself up as the lone voice of reason in a sea of hysterical Zionists. I really should have known better than to take the bait, but let's be honest, it was a pretty awesome rant.
ETA: Oh, and while we're digging up old posts, his response re: the late Senator...

There hasn't been a greater traitor to his own people than Ted Kennedy. I don't mourn his death. His religion has nothing to do with it.

 

[Kurse]

Hell yeah it was xD.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Actually, here Investigator gives us a perfect demonstration of his modus operandi. He uses both the simple fact that he's a Holocaust denier and his constant forecasting of America's doom by way of moral/racial/societal decay to provoke flames, which both give him the attention he craves and allow him to set himself up as the lone voice of reason in a sea of hysterical Zionists. I really should have known better than to take the bait,

Jontg finally starts to understand his predicament and the tactical errors he and his palls made trying to debate me while tumbling over each other about who could scream 'Nazi' the loudest, while I was playing a sort of Lord Sinclair giving my opponents 'good advice' and 'style tips'.

Did I have a good time doing it? You bet!
And you have to admit, that you are really soft targets.

But you should not for a moment think that I am 'craving for your attention'. Or that I deep in my heart know better about the holocaust and I am just playing the denier. I don't know what exactly happened during WW2 but I have grave, grave doubts about the story and every page that this thread grows my doubts increase and turns into almost certainty that the story stinks. You have nothing, really nothing. A single lousy picture from Auschwitz that was obviously doctored, the pictures of Belsen that where used to bootstrap the 'holocaust' courtesy Alfred Hitchcock (documenting a situation for which the allies were largely responsible themselves in creating it with their relentless saturation bombing), and the circus of 'survivors' and total frauds like Wiesel and Wiesenthal. There is no difference between a fundamentalist Muslim and you. You all are Believers, the product of decades of brainwashing via television and 'education' and you all become outright hysterical if someone comes along and starts to challenge the cherished believes. Because cherished it is. Using the holocaust you can launch yourselves as members of the Gang of the Good Guys on the cheap, without having to sacrifice a dime.

 

[Nonpareil]

But you should not for a moment think that I am 'craving for your attention'. Or that I deep in my heart know better about the holocaust and I am just playing the denier. I don't know what exactly happened during WW2 but I have grave, grave doubts about the story and every page that this thread grows my doubts increases and turns into almost certainty that the story stinks. You have nothing, really nothing. A single lousy picture from Auschwitz that was obviously doctored, the pictures of Belsen that where used to bootstrap the 'holocaust' courtesy Alfred Hitchcock (documenting a situation for which the allies were largely responsible themselves in creating it with their relentless saturation bombing), and the circus of 'survivors' and total frauds like Wiesel and Wiesenthal. There is no difference between a fundamentalist Muslim and you. You all are Believers, the product of decades of brainwashing via television and 'education' and you all become outright hysterical if someone comes along and starts to challenge the cherished believes. Because cherished it is. Using the holocaust you can launch yourselves as members of the Gang of the Good Guys on the cheap, without having to sacrifice a dime.

You continue to spout as fact countless items that have been shown to be irrelevant and/or false. You also confirm the idea that various posters have put forth - namely, that you suffer from a persecution complex and an overbearing need for attention.
The terms of this debate are simple, 9/11-investigator: either present evidence to support your claim that the Holocaust didn't happen, or go away.
What you fail to realize, however, is that simply denying that evidence exists does not make it so. Claiming that you have debunked evidence does not make it so. Argument ad hominem in no way advances your position. Claiming that we have no case does not make it so. Your entire case rests on bare-faced denial of every fact out there. While it is an impregnable fortress of an argument, it is not in any way logically valid.

 

[Kurse]

Jontg finally starts to understand his predicament and the tactical errors he and his palls made trying to debate me...

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove personal remarks.

Also, you have pointed out no errors, in fact you're in error.

The masses believe it to be true, so YOU must show evidence it is false. So far you havent been able to. Actually, YOU talk about how certain things were and were not used for the holocaust, meaning you admit there was a holocaust.

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove personal remarks.

Did I have a good time doing it? You bet!
And you have to admit, that you are really soft targets.

So you admit to using Ad hom attacks on purpose?

But you should not for a moment think that I am 'craving for your attention'. Or that I deep in my heart know better about the holocaust and I am just playing the denier. I don't know what exactly happened during WW2

Well that has been quite obvious. >_>

You have nothing, really nothing. A single lousy picture from Auschwitz that was obviously doctored

Show me how it was doctored.

There is no difference between a fundamentalist Muslim and you. You all are Believers, the product of decades of brainwashing via television and 'education' and you all become outright hysterical if someone comes along and starts to challenge the cherished believes. Because cherished it is. Using the holocaust you can launch yourselves as members of the Gang of the Good Guys on the cheap, without having to sacrifice a dime.

Blah, blah, blah.
So, as I'm watching Scooby Doo, it secretly brainwashing me to think the holocaust happened.
And you called us hysterical. >_>

And who are the gang of good guys? Pretty much what your saying is that world conquest is a-okay?

I think you really do not know anything.
Grow up, and read a book sometime. Maybe something that's not placed on the internet for idiots to find.

BTW, You have still failed to reply to my posts lol!!

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

Edited to remove personal remarks.

 

[Arkyrion]

Again, I ask you for a piece of information from a credible, non-extremist source. Provide me this, and I will begin to take you seriously.

And your tactic of hiding behind walls of Ad Hominem attacks and Nazi buzzwords have yet to get you anywhere but away from questions that you don't want to answer. Many times, you have dismissed a sizable amount of information as false without so much as citing a source for your reasons for doing so. Many more times, you have simply ignored the information entirely.

If you wish to be taken seriously and not immediately written off as an intolerant instigator who seeks only to spread his crusade of hatred throughout the world, I implore you to do your best to give logical answers for the questions presented to you and credible backing for your spurning of the information you are presented with.

 

[Nonpareil]

The masses believe it to be true, so YOU must show evidence it is false.

Actually, while the burden of proof is on him, it's not because the majority of people believe that the Holocaust happened. It's because the evidence points to the Holocaust happening, and he contests the obvious conclusion (that the evidence is true, and the Holocaust happened).

Show me how it was doctored.

He did - or at least attempted to. As another poster - not sure who - already pointed out, showing a discrepancy in a copy of a copy of a decades-old photo that has been scanned into a computer is not exactly "debunking".

 

[Thunder]

The Holocaust happened and it is very clear by their anti-Semitism, that those who deny the Holocaust do so because they wish to repeat it.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Okay, how does your blog contribute to the defense of your people? And on that note, who do you consider to be your people? Those who share a common homeland, or those who share a common belief?

To encourage them to abandon that sickening urge of self-destruction induced by that holo-tale and to be proud again of their heritage, culture and identity. And to stop the invasion.

My people: Dutch. Germans. French. Scandinavians. Italians. Europeans.

My homeland: Europe.

 

[Arkyrion]

The existence of the Holocaust or the lack thereof should have no bearing on how a people or culture sees themselves. I, as an American of Anglo-Germanic descent, am deeply ashamed of how my ancestors treated the Native American people, but this shame does not define who I am, nor does it cause me to devalue my heritage and my culture. What it does do is prompt me to take action to ensure that such atrocities are never committed again. Do NOT mistake that as meaning that I believe in trying to make up for the crimes of my ancestors. Such a task is as impossible as it is meaningless.

I am the descendant of the English people and the German people. I am White. And of this I am proud. But I have learned that being proud of who I am gives me no right or reason to devalue others who are do not share in my heritage. I bear no ill-will toward those harmed by my ancestors, but neither do I praise them.

In short, I see no reason why you cannot advocate the acceptance and veneration of your culture without denying its mistakes. Mistakes are to be learned from, not dwelt upon. Denying the holocaust is not the only way to bring back the pride of your people, nor is it the most effective way.

And what Invasion?

 

[Belz...]

To encourage them to abandon that sickening urge of self-destruction induced by that holo-tale and to be proud again of their heritage, culture and identity. And to stop the invasion.

My people: Dutch. Germans. French. Scandinavians. Italians. Europeans.

My homeland: Europe.

That's rather vague.

My homeland: Earth.

I don't understand how your "people" happens to come from several different origins. So why doesn't that include, say, Africa ?

I don't see how the fact of the Holocaust changes anything to their heritage or culture, other than the fact that not repeating it would be a good idea.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Firstly, Elie Wiesel certainly mentioned the crematoria, which as anyone familiar with more than 1 Auschwitz memoir or testimony will know, was a term used synonymously by the inmates to refer to the gas chambers, which were as any fule kno located inside the crematoria.

Are you sure? Regarding Auschwitz today everybody refers to the 'gaschambers', not to the crematoria. There is nothing homocidal about crematoria; crematoria are used to 'treat' already dead people. It is the gaschambers were the real evil resides. So why would survivors refer to crematoria rather than gaschambers? I have never heard them doing that. You are mistaken.

Secondly, Wiesel's Night is in fact a novel, a fictionalised autobiography

That's a contradictio in terminus and you know it. An autobiography is a detailed truthful account of one's life, a novel is something that was fabricated. You can't have it both ways. And I hope that our resident holocaust scholar of 8 years is aware of the fact that this pathetic liar never was in either Auschwitz or Buchenwald.

Thirdly, Wiesel actually spent very little time in Birkenau, and was transferred to the labour camp at Monowitz fairly soon after his arrival, where there were no gas chambers. For these reasons, he is not the best witness to events in Birkenau, despite his literary reputation, and is unsurprisingly not often cited by historians writing on Birkenau. Nor did Wiesel ever appear as a probative eyewitness in any court of law concerning crimes at Auschwitz. Frankly, I don't know whether Wiesel personally witnessed what he described, or heard about it through the camp grapevine.

Nick does not know it. May I invite him to a little journey to the review section of Night at Amazon?

Let's see how the American public reacts to this fictionalized 'autobiography' (first 3 items):

- Elie Wiesel's account of Nazi Germany left me stunned. Once I finished, I just sat there thinking about the book and realizing that it wasn't a work of fiction, but a true story.

- Ellie Wiesel makes the scenes so real that any reader can feel like they were living in the horrible and terrifying events.

- Wiesel's autobiographical account of 'life' in the concentration camps remains one of the ten most influential books I have ever read.

Overwelming number of positive responses. Everybody clearly thinks that this novel represents the truth, there are only a handful of sceptics. And the liar never was there at all. He sucked the story out of his sore thumb.

 

[Toke]

Are you sure? Regarding Auschwitz today everybody refers to the 'gaschambers', not to the crematoria. There is nothing homocidal about crematoria; crematoria are used to 'treat' already dead people. It is the gaschambers were the real evil resides. So why would survivors refer to crematoria rather than gaschambers? I have never heard them doing that. You are mistaken.

In Dachau* the gas-chamber and crematorium is in the same building. The exit from the gas-chamber opens to the crematorium, convenient setup.

The chamber for delousing is in the other end of the building next to the entrance to the "locker room".

From a distance the crematorium function is the obvious one due to the chimney and smoke while working.

*The gas chamber there were mostly for training purposes.