Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Simon39759 said:
That in itself is a bit problematic, as we don't really know why the fab' four were included and all the other Gospels were rejected.

Was that selection on legitimate grounds?
I am not familiar enough with the apocryphal Gospels to judge about that, but my understanding was that the selection was mostly done on the basis of familiarity...
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Also, the wackier stuff in the other gospels was decided not to be, well, gospel.

One can read amongst 2nd and 3rd Xtian writings about which gospels were most used kind of thing, I say vaguely, and what was thought about them. Or, as Dan Brown, surmised, it was a conspiracy against the Sacred Feminine.
 
Lothian said:
This thread is not about historical facts about president of the USA. It is about evidence that the New Testament Writers told the truth.

Why do you think that the beliefs of presidents constitutes evidence that New testament Writers told the truth?
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Somebody stated believers in Jeebus {Jesus} were fruitcakes, I have a right to prove him dead wrong don't I.
 
Posted by DOC

Somebody stated believers in Jeebus {Jesus} were fruitcakes, I have a right to prove him dead wrong don't I.

pizzadeliveryninja said:
Then perhaps you should try doing so, rather than using a fallacious appeal to authority.
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If you don't believe the 42 or 43 presidents who claimed a belief in Christianity were fruitcakes then I have proved that believers in Jesus are not fruitcakes.
 
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DOC said:
If you don't believe the 42 or 43 presidents who claimed a belief in Christianity are fruitcakes then I have proved that believers in Jesus are not fruitcakes.
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42 or 43? Do you believe that Obama is a Christian or not?

And why do you keep dodging my request to provide evidence that you understand the appeal to authority and appeal to popularity fallacies?
 
DOC said:
Posted by DOC

Somebody stated believers in Jeebus {Jesus} were fruitcakes, I have a right to prove him dead wrong don't I.

If you don't believe the 42 or 43 presidents who claimed a belief in Christianity are fruitcakes then I have proved that believers in Jesus are not fruitcakes.
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Not unless pizzadeliveryninja is the objective, final arbiter of who is and is not a fruitcake. (If there is such a person, I doubt they would post as "pizzadeliveryninja" - no offense, dude. :D)

Proof is not based on what someone may or may not believe.
 
Mr Clingford said:
Indeed

Aaaah, the mind boggles. Tell me I can keep the bacon sandwiches. Drool (My attempted alcohol derail a page or two ago didn't catch on, perhaps a bacon sandwich/ roll one might).
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No, you can't. Would you now please hand them over!
 
Lothian said:
You refute this by pointing out that GWB is a Christian?
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No, I refuted that people who believe in Christianity are not fruitcakes by pointing out that 42 or 43 US presidents publicly claimed to be Christian, you brought up GWB. Sounds like you could be appealing to the fact that GWB is unpopular with most skeptics on this system.
 
Cleon said:
Not unless pizzadeliveryninja is the objective, final arbiter of who is and is not a fruitcake. (If there is such a person, I doubt they would post as "pizzadeliveryninja" - no offense, dude. :D)
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Not at the moment, but I assure you my application is in the post.
 
DOC said:
Having 2 eyewitness apostles (Matthew and John) , 1 associate/companion of the main apostle Peter (Mark), and a physician who was eventually called one of the world's greatest historians (Luke), are not bad choices.

I know, now Pax or somebody is going to come in and say but we don't know who wrote the gospels. I'll answer that point before hand. I've already posted considerable evidence in this thread for the authorship of Matthew and John, if you don't agree with that evidence then so be it.
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I don't remember you actually posting evidence of the authorship of the Gospels, just claim that it was and empty reference to Luke being a 'great historian'.
But, let's leave that alone for the moment...

You DO realize that many of the apocryphical too were attributed to apostles of Jesus, such as Bartholomew, Thomas and Peter? And that others were also attributed to alleged eyewitnesses (such as Nicodemus)? Or, for several of the Gnostic gospels, from the people that learned directly under apostles?
The attribution tradition for this Gospels is very similar than that of the four regular ones.

If you are going to consider these traditional attribution to be erroneous (and I'd agree with you), you will need to explain how it is different from the ones of the traditional ones...
 
I'm gonna make a promise. Once the United States have had more that 50 presidents who affirm the divinity of Jesus I am going to become a believing Christian again. Given that I have got some 40-50 years left, I should see somewhere between 5 and 12 further presidents.

I guess the ball is now in the court of the average American voter ... :)
 
DOC said:
Somebody stated believers in Jeebus {Jesus} were fruitcakes, I have a right to prove him dead wrong don't I.
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I think that Akhenaten was just explaining how Tacitus would have seen the Christians. From his point of view, a small sect of innocuous fruitcakes. I'd agree with Akhenaton that is seems likely that it is how Tacitus would have seen the {non} issue. He, after all, only devoted one single short sentence on Christianity, out of five whole books and half of this sentence actually concerns Nero's actions rather than them.
And that, of course, if he indeed did write that particular sentence, it is likely, but not certain.
 
Hokulele said:
42 or 43? Do you believe that Obama is a Christian or not?
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Yes

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104517

Hokulele said:
And why do you keep dodging my request to provide evidence that you understand the appeal to authority and appeal to popularity fallacies?
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I have read the definitions of most of the fallacies including authority. If I make a post that you believe has a fallacy you are welcome to point it out. But I still have a right to point out that people who believe in Jesus are not fruitcakes as evidenced by the 42 or 43 who have shown they believe in Christianity.
 
DOC said:
Posted by DOC

Somebody stated believers in Jeebus {Jesus} were fruitcakes, I have a right to prove him dead wrong don't I.

If you don't believe the 42 or 43 presidents who claimed a belief in Christianity were fruitcakes then I have proved that believers in Jesus are not fruitcakes.
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Doc, you do realize that even if I were to agree that the 43 presidents were not fruitcakes (a good number are debatable), all you will have proven is that...well...43 of the people who claim to have believed in Christianity were not fruitcakes. That proves nothing more about the veracity of Christianity, much less that of the NT.

Try again?
 
DOC said:
I have read the definitions of most of the fallacies including authority. If I make a post that you believe has a fallacy you are welcome to point it out. I still have a right to point out that people who believe in Jesus are not fruitcakes as evidenced by the 42 or 43 who have shown they believe in Christianity.
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The claim was not that all Christains are fruitcakes. The claim was that Tactius probably thought the Christians at the time were fruitcakes in the same way that people today see scientologists.

Suggesting Akhenaten clamed that all Christians or presidents are fruitcakes is a Strawman fallacy.
 
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