www.StopVisionFromFeeling.com - Volunteers Needed

[desertgal]

The point is: If you believe an illegal action took place, the JREF Forum is not the first address to go to.

Of course not. But, observing that something may be illegal here doesn't mean that this is the only place the issue has been addressed.

 

[Uncayimmy]

My point about your website's relationship to the private messages is this:

We all provoke her with our posts here and on your website. You probably provoke her the most since it's your site. I cannot know the full extent of your private communication with her, but I'm willing to bet it spikes after you or someone else posts some sort of public provocation.

There's really no pattern to when she contacts me. There have been a couple of times where she was clearly reacting to something on the site, such as when her claims about detecting significant biological differences based on "race" (skin color, actually) were examined closely. More often than not it's just whether she feels like contacting me or not.

I just took a cursory look at my Skype log for the last 30 days. She initiated Skype chats on 14 different days. On some of those days she initiated more than one chat. Furthermore, I had her blocked for several days so she couldn't initiate any chats at all.

It's harder to provoke her here because of the moderation. Your website allows for faster and more barbed posts, which increases the private communication, which increases the number of her claims. I can only imagine what you know that you are unwilling (for ethical reasons) to share.

I would say you have a reasonable hypothesis, but I don't believe the facts bear that out. Since I started the site there has only been one new claim: healing. You could argue that sensing a hand being dunked in ice is a new claim, but it was really her attempt to "study" what she already thinks she can do.

So, although you had a private correspondance with her before your website, the moderated status of the threads was not conducive to continuing that relationship. I know the relationship has had its ups and downs both earlier (when she said she was going to unfriend you) and later after you created your website (when she kept trying to contact you over and over after you asked her not to). I assume she has to pay more attention to you when you are a webmaster than when you are one of many posters here. That puts you in a unique position with her---you, to a certain extent, control what the world knows of her.

Another reasonable hypothesis, but I don't believe the facts support it.

 

[Uncayimmy]

He was jumping the gun, and because of that is now actually contributing to the problem; see VFF's above statement.

What's happening is that she's taking the website as encouragement, as a challenge, and she's redoubling her efforts to _do something_, rather than just poke around idly. She is also using his website as a resource to publicize her claims and services -- nothing like free advertising via Google, right?

StopSylvia was a much different circumstance as it addressed a person who was already famous. I have a real concern, reading these threads, that paying this much attention to Anita is simply aggravating the circumstances.

I'm glad that you have a "real" concern rather than a fake one. I would hate to think that after 8 months of not posting in any of the VFF discussion threads and 4 months after the start of my website that your "concern" was somehow related to our recent personal issues (you publicly announced that you were putting me on ignore).

There seems to be misconception as to the scope of Anita's activities. Allow me to recap what happened before I started my site.

* Long before she arrived here, her website was on-line.

* Long before she arrived here, she was in protracted and public negotiations with the IIG to take their $50K challenge.

* She has contacted other skeptic boards

* She did "readings" of people she "just met"

* She gave medical advice about a heart condition

* She very seriously discussed the possibility of winning a Nobel.

* She wrote a letter to the local parks office describing her abilities and soliciting "permission" to do a study on park property.

* She wrote a letter to the owner of a local mall describing her abilities and asking permission to do a "study" in the mall where she solicited patrons.

* She joined a local skeptics group and did "readings" with them.

* She solicited volunteers from that group to help conduct a "study"

* She conducted a study on the sidewalk in the city by soliciting strangers

* She contacted Dr. Emoto and volunteered to help him conduct his water crystal studies.

* She contacted at least one other woo practitioner to share her experiences.

* She told a few professors about her abilities.

* She joined the local Star Seed Meetup group

* She wrote on her website that she was making fun of people here and only visited this site to "have fun" with the skeptics.

This is all based on what she has told us publicly before I created my site. We have no idea what else she might have done. The notion that she's just harmlessly talking about her claims here is a misconception. People are welcome to argue that it's not enough to "justify" creating the site, but I feel it necessary to remind everyone what has actually happened.

As for spurring her on, that's nonsense. My website lists over 30 separate claims. By my estimate all but a couple were made before I created the site. The only ones I am sure that are new are the following:

* Healing

* Survived without water for a week or more on three different occasions. That's not really a paranormal claim - it's really just a grab for attention.

* Detecting a hand dunked in ice or making a fist, but that's really an extension of her previous claims. And she never actually said she could do it. She was just "studying" to see if she could.

So, where do you get off saying that she's "redoubling her efforts" as a result of my website? Where's your evidence?

As for your claims of publicity, that's nonsense. Nobody finds my site unless they are looking for it or see the link here. And that's exactly my goal. If she tries to expand her scope, like with contacting the Migraine Support Group, there's a resource beyond her website and the thousands of unorganized posts here. Most people seem to believe in woo. However, most of those people acknowledge that many are frauds or misguided. I believe I can reach those people should they choose to do the research.

If Anita wants attention, all she has to do is post here. And that's exactly what she does. Her story about going without water was posted here. She's made references to being an alien in other threads. I was not involved in any of those threads before she posted her fantasies.

She wrote the migraine story knowing I would post it. So, if your objection is that I acted as a middle-man, fine. Based on past behavior, I argue that she would have posted it here or on her website anyway. Furthermore, she told me she was contacting the Migraine Support Group before I posted her story. My actions had nothing to do with that decision.

So, where is your evidence that I am, as you put it, contributing to the problem? For that matter, why don't you define what the problem is in the first place?

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I remember that you and VfF were privately communicating long before your website. I think your interview thread with her here was an outgrowth of that private communication. Correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline.

So, although you had a private correspondance with her before your website, the moderated status of the threads was not conducive to continuing that relationship. I know the relationship has had its ups and downs both earlier (when she said she was going to unfriend you) and later after you created your website (when she kept trying to contact you over and over after you asked her not to). I assume she has to pay more attention to you when you are a webmaster than when you are one of many posters here. That puts you in a unique position with her---you, to a certain extent, control what the world knows of her.

Anyone can contact me and have a live chat over Skype (VisionFromFeeling) with me or even PM me for my phone number. There is no particular reason why UncaYimmy seems to be in that unique position.

 

[Audible Click]

I'd like to add, that if you type "Anita Ikonen" into the Google search engine the Stop VfF forum shows up as the second link, this at least gives anyone who is researching her claims an opposite point of view from her website.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

* She did "readings" of people she "just met"

They are friends.

* She gave medical advice about a heart condition

He confirmed that he has a heart condition and has had heart pains.

* She very seriously discussed the possibility of winning a Nobel.

Only after you told me that if I pass the test someone else will get the Nobel prize for the discovery of my paranormal ability, and when I said that it belongs to me, you said, "that's not how I'm going to play it". I remember that. Of course I want to be entitled to any rewards for my work and for my ability, however I am not expecting a Nobel prize.

* She contacted Dr. Emoto and volunteered to help him conduct his water crystal studies.

I am very interested in most things dealing with light matter interaction and even like to look into pseudoscientific claims related to it.

* She contacted at least one other woo practitioner to share her experiences.

I am investigating.

* She wrote on her website that she was making fun of people here and only visited this site to "have fun" with the skeptics.

That is a misunderstanding of what I meant.

* Healing

Those that I have attempted to heal think that I have healed them, whereas I remain skeptical, and that is why things are getting interesting now.

* Survived without water for a week or more on three different occasions. That's not really a paranormal claim - it's really just a grab for attention.

It was the truth and I mentioned it to correct when someone said that humans can't survive for four days without drinking. I don't talk about it because it is dangerous to promote it.

 

[desertgal]

It was the truth and I mentioned it to correct when someone said that humans can't survive for four days without drinking. I don't talk about it because it is dangerous to promote it.

Nonsense. Someone mentioned in a thread, five years ago, an old saying about "four days without water". They did not state it, nor did anyone accept it, five years ago, as an established fact that applies to every member of the human race. You posted your claim to draw attention to yourself. Period. If you "don't talk about it", then you wouldn't have brought it up at all.

And your claim:

"What it is is not the same as simply "not eating". I have tried "simply not eating and drinking" and it does not produce the same results. If I simply don't eat and drink I will get hungry, will feel thirsty, will quickly within one day develop all the signs of needing and wanting to eat and drink, and of course would cancel it. However what this is, is a choice...Call it fully placebo, if you will, and if that's what it is, but something happens. There is no sensation of thirst, no hunger, no feeling of need to eat or drink. The obvious signs of starvation and dehydration that are very apparent if simply "not eating/drinking" - are not there."

is simply more delusional fantasy.

None of it happened. Ever. The events you describe exist only in your mind.

 

[Uncayimmy]

They are friends.

So what I said is true.

He confirmed that he has a heart condition and has had heart pains.

So what I said is true.

Only after you told me that if I pass the test someone else will get the Nobel prize for the discovery of my paranormal ability, and when I said that it belongs to me, you said, "that's not how I'm going to play it". I remember that. Of course I want to be entitled to any rewards for my work and for my ability, however I am not expecting a Nobel prize.

So what I said is true.

I am very interested in most things dealing with light matter interaction and even like to look into pseudoscientific claims related to it.

So what I said is true.

I am investigating.

So what I said is true.

That is a misunderstanding of what I meant.

So what I said is true.

Those that I have attempted to heal think that I have healed them, whereas I remain skeptical, and that is why things are getting interesting now.

So what I said is true.

It was the truth and I mentioned it to correct when someone said that humans can't survive for four days without drinking. I don't talk about it because it is dangerous to promote it.

So what I said is true.

What was the point of picking certain things I wrote to confirm them? What about the others?

 

[Uncayimmy]

Below is a Skype "chat" (not really a chat since I didn't respond) with VFF. I don't know if her story is true, but she claims that somebody e-mailed her requesting VFF use her Super Powers to diagnose an illness. I guess it was only a matter of time. Read what she wrote yourself. It sounds like she's going to decline, but she doesn't come right out and say it. Actually, what she says she's going to write is the same type of disclaimer she told us she gives people before doing readings.

[9/1/2009 2:48:12 PM] Anita Ikonen: I received an e-mail from a woman who is asking for my help! She says that conventional medicine has been unable to diagnose her illness.
[9/1/2009 2:48:47 PM] Anita Ikonen: If my medical perceptions aren't reality based, there is no way I could go meet with a woman and tell her nonsense about her medical condition. I don't think I will do it.
[9/1/2009 2:50:20 PM] Anita Ikonen: Medical instruments must be tested and approved before use, and that would include any medical intuitive. And I don't have my certification yet.
[9/1/2009 2:50:33 PM] Anita Ikonen: If I ever will.
[9/1/2009 2:58:11 PM] Anita Ikonen: I am writing to her to advise her to keep her confidence in conventional medicine even though conventional medicine is not always perfect, and to explain that I am not a licenced health practitioner.
[9/1/2009 2:58:30 PM] Anita Ikonen: How's THAT for not being Brent Atwater!

 

[Ashles]

[9/1/2009 2:48:47 PM]Anita Ikonen: If my medical perceptions aren't reality based, there is no way I could go meet with a woman and tell her nonsense about her medical condition. I don't think I will do it.

"I don't think I will do it"??? She hasn't completely ruled it out???

I hope she mentioned to this woman that she was in effect asking to be dignosed by someone who thinks they might have nothing more than synesthesia.

And thanks to Anita we are once again graphically reminded of the reason for the existence of Unca Yimmy's site - StopVisionFromFeeling.

 

[Audible Click]

I really,really, hope that this e-mail is just a fiction of hers, if it's not then this could be very scary.

 

[TheSkepticCanuck]

I really,really, hope that this e-mail is just a fiction of hers, if it's not then this could be very scary.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[krelnik]

(Perhaps this is off-topic for this thread, moderators please move to appropriate spot if need be...)

Vision From Feeling has agreed to be tested for IIGWest's $50,000 paranormal challenge. Press release: Psychic ‘Eyes’ $50,000 Prize! Hollywood skeptics to determine if applicant can “see” inside the human body

Anita Ikonen — a 26 year old student from University of North Carolina at Charlotte — claims she can see inside the human body without the aid of an MRI or X-Ray machine. During this preliminaryAnita Ikonen demonstration Ms. Ikonen will be presented with multiple human test subjects and asked to identify those who are missing internal organs. If she is successful Anita will move on to the formal test for the IIG’s “$50,000 Challenge,” and potentially go for a one million dollar prize offered by the godfather of skepticism — James Randi. The demonstration will be conducted at the offices of the Center for Inquiry in Hollywood on November 21, 2009.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

(Perhaps this is off-topic for this thread, moderators please move to appropriate spot if need be...)

Vision From Feeling has agreed to be tested for IIGWest's $50,000 paranormal challenge. Press release: Psychic ‘Eyes’ $50,000 Prize! Hollywood skeptics to determine if applicant can “see” inside the human body

Off-topic or not, it is valuable information to have. Thanks.

If you like, you could start a thread in the MDC subforum. It should be on-topic since it is aimed at the MDC itself.

Thanks again.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

(Perhaps this is off-topic for this thread, moderators please move to appropriate spot if need be...)

Vision From Feeling has agreed to be tested for IIGWest's $50,000 paranormal challenge.

Not exactlly.

She and IIG have agreed to a preliminary test protocol, but they have postponed discussions or negotiations on a protocol for a test for the $50K.

As it stands, no matter what she does on this test, there is no chance of her winning $50K.

I think it's worse than not doing a test, since the results are meaningless. (And the protocol is being kept secret because apparently it's important that the subjects be kept in the dark, which makes me suspect that the protocol allows for cold reading techniques.)

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Not exactlly.

She and IIG have agreed to a preliminary test protocol, but they have postponed discussions or negotiations on a protocol for a test for the $50K.

As it stands, no matter what she does on this test, there is no chance of her winning $50K.

I think it's worse than not doing a test, since the results are meaningless. (And the protocol is being kept secret because apparently it's important that the subjects be kept in the dark, which makes me suspect that the protocol allows for cold reading techniques.)

Did some browsing, found nothing. Where did you get that from? Thanks.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Did some browsing, found nothing. Where did you get that from? Thanks.

Yeah, I couldn't get that from reading the IIG press release. It came out from people who are privy to more information (include Anita). See the other active VFF thread.

 

[alleracsum]

I'm new around here and coming in late but it sounds to me like Joe the Juggler and others do not have all the information and are engaging in a lot of speculation and theorizing based on, well... nothing. Are you criticizing the IIG protocol (which you have not seen) or criticizing the IIG for not letting you see it?

 

[Uncayimmy]

FYI, I have taken the step of revoking Anita's posting privileges on my board because she started a thread threatening to be bring "charges" against one of the participants in the chat room, Lex, who works at UNCC. She is falsely accusing her of leading some sort of hate campaign and is once again lying about things that have been done.

http://www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com/Discussion/tabid/294/aff/1/aft/197/afv/topic/Default.aspx

 

[GzuzKryzt]

FYI, I have taken the step of revoking Anita's posting privileges on my board because she started a thread threatening to be bring "charges" against one of the participants in the chat room, Lex, who works at UNCC. She is falsely accusing her of leading some sort of hate campaign and is once again lying about things that have been done.

http://www.stopvisionfromfeeling.com/Discussion/tabid/294/aff/1/aft/197/afv/topic/Default.aspx

Great you worked things out. I'm glad you're back.

Engage.