Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[Ron_Tomkins]

If you were to re-word that slightly (but importantly) to mean what I think you intend it to mean, namely: "I don't know whether women, generally, would love to become a porn star or not.", then I can assure you I do, and the answer is "no".

Surely you have some serious research data to back up this claim, yes?
You wouldn't be making that claim solely on the base that you're "really really sure", no?

Or that you've talked to a "lot of women" who hate the idea of working as porn stars.... because then we have to ask you "how much is a lot of women?". You do know you're making a broad generalization which should apply to all women on planet earth, do you?

The only part you keep avoiding in this discussion is the issue of statistical evidence.

 

[Eric D]

Surely you have some serious research data to back up this claim, yes?
You wouldn't be making that claim solely on the base that you're "really really sure", no?

Or that you've talked to a "lot of women" who hate the idea of working as porn stars.... because then we have to ask you "how much is a lot of women?". You do know you're making a broad generalization which should apply to all women on planet earth, do you?

The only part you keep avoiding in this discussion is the issue of statistical evidence.

Actually he's been avoiding the entire question this thread was started for in the first place. One asks "what's wrong with porn" and he answers with questions. "Would you do it?" "Would you date someone who was in porn?"

Even if he was right about most people not wanting to be in it, so what? How on earth does that show that pornography is wrong?

The saddest part is, it's his own question.

 

[Southwind17]

Since you have stated that you're not an anti-porn, then even more than ever I need to know what are you trying to get at?. Because even if we say "Porn Industry", that job has an infinite amount of ramifications, from completely legal, softcore late-cinemax type of porn, to illegal, underground snuff porn or child porn.

You claim you don't have a bias against porn, yet your OP is entitled "What's wrong with porn?", which sounds almost as if you were assuming there's something wrong with it in the first place. If that's not it, then what is your ultimate goal with this thread and what is your essential argument?.

:-

Here's another passing thought: I didn't start this thread to make a case one way or the other, and I have no intention to do so. I merely started it to solicit views of others, just out of interest. With that in mind I think my achievement deserves a round of applause!

 

[Southwind17]

Most? Might? Try all and would definetly. You're talking about sexual assault here. If it they didn't deplore it, it would not be rape at all.

I used "most" and "might" to match the statement I was contesting. It would be foolish to take everything literally around here. Watch and learn.

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Originally Posted by Southwind17 View Post
Here's another passing thought: I didn't start this thread to make a case one way or the other, and I have no intention to do so. I merely started it to solicit views of others, just out of interest. With that in mind I think my achievement deserves a round of applause!

Well, all I can say is that for someone who just starts a thread to read the views of others, you do seem to passionately take a stance against all of our collective conclusions: That there is nothing inherently wrong about porn; and that it is essentially a job like others.

You did also make a very specific claim: That most women do not like the idea of working in porn (And the underlying assumption that maybe there is something wrong with that particular wrong industry, though I'd still like to hear your confirmation of this). And I'm still waiting for your serious statistical evidence on this claim.

And so far, your arguing approach leaves no room for applause. So, no. At least not yet.

 

[Southwind17]

So what exactly are you trying to say? The intitial question was "what's wrong with porn" i.e. "is there anything immoral about it?" and your answer so far is that most women wouldn't want to do it. Morality is not a democratic decision.

You're making some major assumptions here about my motives. That's dangerous!

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

Originally Posted by Eric D View Post
So what exactly are you trying to say? The intitial question was "what's wrong with porn" i.e. "is there anything immoral about it?" and your answer so far is that most women wouldn't want to do it. Morality is not a democratic decision.

You're making some major assumptions here about my motives. That's dangerous!

And you're making a major deliberate attempt at dodging an essential question:

Originally Posted by Eric D View Post
So what exactly are you trying to say?

 

[JFrankA]

Really? What line of logic leads you to jump to that conclusion?


Really? What line of logic leads you to jump to that conclusion?

See post #163 where you call "regular" woman a woman who would detest doing porn.

If you were to re-word that slightly (but importantly) to mean what I think you intend it to mean, namely: "I don't know whether women, generally, would love to become a porn star or not.", then I can assure you I do, and the answer is "no". If you disagree then you've been spending too much time "in the industry" and not enough in civvy street, so to speak.

Ah.

The we agree that your statement is based on your opinions, your experiences, your beliefs, your idea of what a porn star is and your bias.

So is mine.

Therefore, my statement I do know that most women would love to be a porn star.

My statement is just as valid as yours.

You have been spending too much time with "prudes and uptight people" and not enough in civvy in the industry to know what works and what doesn't so to speak.

See how that works?

So not "generally", then. I see.

No, I do not speak generally. You are.

Well let's just agree to disagree then. I've been around long enough to know from experience that most women, generally (and I mean the vast majority), would not choose to become a porn star. Indeed, they deplore the idea.

And I've been around enough to know that you are making a general assumption without any facts or data to back you up.

You are, simply, believing your opinion is true fact.

 

[JFrankA]

Isn't it funny how easily some people bark up the wrong tree?! For the record - I LOVE porn - can't get enough of it, and I don't mean the marshmallow variety that many people here will only entertain. So, there you have it. Re-read the entire thread if you need to satisfy yourself that that's not a contradiction. I guarantee you'll not find one. Indeed, just re-read the OP question. Would an anti-porn proponent really pose such a question in that way?!

Because you have stated in past posts that

"Regular" women think that doing porn is degrading, you would never date a porn star because of diseases and they have low self-esteem, and people in the industry don't have the "civvy" to understand how the real world works....
........those posts you put up leads me to the conclusion that you think that porn stars, the people who would date them, and people in the industry are less than normal.

Sorry, that's based on your words.

That's why you come across as anti-porn. For someone who claims that you like it a lot, you sure seem to think little of the people who work in it.

 

[JFrankA]

You're making some major assumptions here about my motives. That's dangerous!

And you've made some major assumptions about women and porn stars in general. What's more dangerous?

 

[Lithrael]

Isn't it funny how easily some people bark up the wrong tree?! For the record - I LOVE porn - can't get enough of it, and I don't mean the marshmallow variety that many people here will only entertain. So, there you have it. Re-read the entire thread if you need to satisfy yourself that that's not a contradiction. I guarantee you'll not find one. Indeed, just re-read the OP question. Would an anti-porn proponent really pose such a question in that way?!

I am barking up your OP, sir; I think it is you that's barking up a tree I am not in:

The title ("What's wrong with porn?") says it all. I'm interested to hear people's views, particularly justifications for/against, including details of any scientific and empirical evidence against porn.

(...)there are quite a lot of girls who write and draw porn for no compensation, as a hobby. I'm curious if Southwind is interested in discussing whether there's something wrong with this as well.

This is the wrong tree, is it? I thought it was a straightforward if somewhat sarky response to the OP. I have not accused you of being anti-porn, rather I am trying to figure out what you are on about with this 'no woman I know would ever want to do sex for pay' angle, by introducing the idea of women who are involved in porn without having sex for pay.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

You're making some major assumptions here about my motives. That's dangerous!

 

[quixotecoyote]

I just checked, mine is still working fine.

 

[HansMustermann]

Isn't it funny how easily some people bark up the wrong tree?! For the record - I LOVE porn - can't get enough of it, and I don't mean the marshmallow variety that many people here will only entertain. So, there you have it. Re-read the entire thread if you need to satisfy yourself that that's not a contradiction. I guarantee you'll not find one. Indeed, just re-read the OP question. Would an anti-porn proponent really pose such a question in that way?!

I don't know about him (though I am getting that impression), but I can assure you that at least for me your motives and purposes are fully irrelevant. I would just expect you to support your assertions better than via what _other_ women think about them. Which is a non-sequitur of epic proportions.

What makes it epic is that you haven't even provided evidence that, say, "most women think porn actresses have low self esteem"... which would still be a non-sequitur. You're attempting to bridge straight from "most women wouldn't do that" to a fully disconnected pop-psych conclusion.

The fact is, just about any think you can think of, you can find a majority group which wouldn't like doing that. Maybe even feel very strongly against doing that. It doesn't prove anything.

E.g., most men would hate to have sex with another man. Even those of us who don't mind someone else's doing it (I'm not gonna tell consenting adults what to do), wouldn't do it ourselves. There's a hard-wired response in there. But 10% of the people simply are wired differently.

E.g., most people of both sexes would really hate a job as a programmer. Even the thought of sitting with a computer and almost no human interaction (other than 10 minutes at the water cooler and a weekly team meeting) is most people's idea of pure torture. But some people actually like doing just that.

You simply can't bridge from "they're different from the majority" straight to "they have low self esteem" like that. You have proven _no_ evidence whatsoever of that critical "low self esteem" claim. All you do is a bunch of handwaving around something that just doesn't bridge that gap. You need a few more "X=>Y" propositions in there to connect your (so far fully irrelevant) evidence to your conclusion.

But, at any rate, your motives (if any) are fully irrelevant. If your data supports your assertions, it will still do so regardless of whether you're for or against porn or fully neutral.

 

[fuelair]

That's right - your error. So now that you've made it, in justification for your asking a question and requesting a response, such justification now being invalidated, I think I'm entitled to expect a response to my question:

Sorry buddy - if you call me in the tone that you did and trip up there's no second chance Sunday on my account.

You will, I trust, understand when I say I really don't care. It does not change the fact that evasiveness has been a pattern in your posts. If you wish to assume I am wrong on that, feel free. And avoid semantic games.

 

[ponderingturtle]

It has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. I know plenty of conservative people who are in porno and a lot more who attend swing parties.

This makes me think of people defending the sanctity of marriage and why gay marriage is an abomination at a swing party. I find this image funny.

 

[Sledge]

I've seen a few threads on porn on different forums, and it always surprises me how the anti-porn brigade never bring anything than their own personal distaste to the discussion. Oh, that and a hatful of unsupported allegations: "all porn actresses were abused as children," "all porn actresses have STDs," "porn causes rape," etc. It's almost as if these people have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[ponderingturtle]

So what exactly are you trying to say? The intitial question was "what's wrong with porn" i.e. "is there anything immoral about it?" and your answer so far is that most women wouldn't want to do it. Morality is not a democratic decision.

It seems most women do not want to be engineers, so clearly engineering is demeaning to women.

QED

Southwinds logic might leave something to be desired though.

 

[BenBurch]

I am wondering. He seems to actually hate sexworkers.

 

[Sledge]

A lot of rape and sexual abuse counselors were themselves raped or sexually abused. Clearly these jobs need to be outlawed.

Interesting how so few of the arguments make sense when applied to anything else. It's almost as if the people who don't like porn are pleading for special treatment, but that can't be the case here, right?