Roman Polanski arrested (discuss)...

[Darth Rotor]

Little more Polanski news...

Looks like it was actually the Swiss government that tipped off the U.S. authorities about Polanski's trip there...

From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091021/ap_en_ce/eu_switzerland_polanski
According to the e-mails, the Swiss ministry sent an urgent fax to the U.S. Office of International Affairs on Sept. 22 stating Polanski was traveling to Zurich. The director was to be feted at a film festival, and Swiss officials wanted to know if the U.S. would be submitting a request for his arrest as he was the subject of an international law enforcement "Red Notice."
...
Polanski has until Oct. 29 to appeal the decision on his release. He also can continue attempts to persuade the Swiss Justice Ministry to release him.... Legal experts said no path offered Polanski much hope for a speedy release from jail... It is not clear how much time in jail Polanski faces now, either in Switzerland or in the United States. With appeals, the extradition process in Switzerland could take months. In the United States, Polanski fled before sentencing was complete and is expected to face additional penalties for jumping bail.


I wonder, does the time Polanski spends in Swiss jail counted against any sentence he gets in the U.S.? If not, is it really a good idea to fight extradition? After all, he could end up spending longer in a Swiss jail than he would if he simply came back to the U.S. and accepted his punishment.

I would hope he'd get credit for time served.

Here's a curious thing.

The general moral setting in CA at the time of Polanski's case was a hell of a lot more permissive than what seems to have evolved over time in the US on matters of sexual behavior. (Likewise with recreational drugs and drunk driving). Polanski might have gotten x months or a year back then, particularly when parole, probation, plea deals, and all that get factored in, but with the climate in society what it is now -- in re sex and the underaged -- his sentencing might be a hell of a lot more severe now than at that time.

I am still less than comfortable with, based on what I have read, how this girl's mother maneuvered such that her daughter was in that situation to start with, at age 13.

 

[Prometheus]

I would hope he'd get credit for time served.

Here's a curious thing.

The general moral setting in CA at the time of Polanski's case was a hell of a lot more permissive than what seems to have evolved over time in the US on matters of sexual behavior. (Likewise with recreational drugs and drunk driving). Polanski might have gotten x months or a year back then, particularly when parole, probation, plea deals, and all that get factored in, but with the climate in society what it is now -- in re sex and the underaged -- his sentencing might be a hell of a lot more severe now than at that time.

I am still less than comfortable with, based on what I have read, how this girl's mother maneuvered such that her daughter was in that situation to start with, at age 13.

I wonder about that myself. Are judges generally required to use whatever sentencing guidelines were in use at the time a verdict was rendered? It's conceivable he might even get a longer sentence for skipping town than he does for the original offense.

 

[Ranb]

I am still less than comfortable with, based on what I have read, how this girl's mother maneuvered such that her daughter was in that situation to start with, at age 13.

I am little impressed with how the girl's mom acted. But the maneuver that most people should pay attention to is the 13 year old victim's. She tried to maneuver herself out of the house after Polanski started raping her. Saying no did not work; neither did trying to leave after the rape was interrupted by another house guest.

Ranb

 

[Ranb]

I'm sure that Polanski was aware of the change in attitudes towards child rape. Let him reap the benefits of a lengthy prison sentence for prolonging his day of reckoning. If the bastard dies in prison, I will not shed a tear.

Ranb

 

[johnny karate]

What if I've been making a variety of points which can't be summed up with a sound bite like "Roman Polanski good!" or "Roman Polanski bad!"?

...

By the same token, multiple cogent and coherent arguments should not be able to be summed up in a single concise thesis statement.

Have it your way.

But a person who refuses to state their position forfeits the right to be offended when other people incorrectly surmise what that position might be. So if you won't tell us what your point is, at least spare us your indignant whining whenever someone guesses wrong.

 

[johnny karate]

I would hope he'd get credit for time served.

I don't see why he should. His time in prison awaiting extradition is unrelated to whatever sentencing awaits him in the States, and is a direct consequence of him having fled justice in the first place. If Polanski didn't want to be rotting in a Swedish prison, he probably shouldn't have raped a 13 year-old girl and then left the country.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Have it your way.

But a person who refuses to state their position forfeits the right to be offended when other people incorrectly surmise what that position might be. So if you won't tell us what your point is, at least spare us your indignant whining whenever someone guesses wrong.

I'd still like to see your thesis statement, seeing as you are the one who asserted that such a thing must exist for every poster. What's it going to hurt for you to present your thesis statement?

As for your claim above, you don't get to make up my position for me just because I decline to boil it down to a sound bite for you to misinterpret. As I said earlier you can't boil a complicated position on a variety of issues down to a single sound bite, so the demand that I do so is simple-minded and nonsensical. Read what I actually posted and respond to it, if you have a problem with something I've actually posted.

 

[johnny karate]

My thesis statement is simply this: Roman Polanski raped a 13 year-old girl, plead guilty to a related crime, and should be punished in whatever manner the law sees fit. Every post I have made in this thread has had its basis in this thesis.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

My thesis statement is simply this: Roman Polanski raped a 13 year-old girl, plead guilty to a related crime, and should be punished in whatever manner the law sees fit. Every post I have made in this thread has had its basis in this thesis.

Okay. If that's what you're after then mine is:

Roman Polanski had unlawful sex with a 13 year old girl, pleaded guilty, and should serve the remainder of his sentence plus whatever extra you get for doing a runner under those circumstances.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I don't see why he should.

Swiss prison. Johnny, if various thieves, murderers and a variety of other thugs can get credit for time served, I see no reason not to give it to Polanski. So long as he serves, a few weeks off of an X month or X year sentence for his time in Switzerland does not seem to be worth carping about.

DR

 

[jimbob]

Okay. If that's what you're after then mine is:

Roman Polanski had unlawful sex with a 13 year old girl, pleaded guilty, and should serve the remainder of his sentence plus whatever extra you get for doing a runner under those circumstances.

What about the coercive aspect?

ETA: as opposed to the merely illegal aspect?

ETA2:

For example the Bolton 7 were performing acts that woudn't rock my boat, and were considered illegal, but which I wouldn't consider to be immoral.

IIRC (and this isn't mentioned in wiki) there was fully consensual harm (involving sandpaper IIRC etc... which they were also prosecuted for)

 

[Prometheus]

What about the coercive aspect?

ETA: as opposed to the merely illegal aspect?

Unfortunately, he didn't plead guilty to that, and it's too late to prosecute him for it.

 

[jimbob]

Unfortunately, he didn't plead guilty to that, and it's too late to prosecute him for it.

He admitted drugging the girl.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Unfortunately, he didn't plead guilty to that, and it's too late to prosecute him for it.

Further, given that we have only the girl's uncorroborated word that "the coercive aspect" (rape) happened, that the forensic evidence is consistent with Polanski's version of events, and that the forensic evidence seems to indicate that the girl lied in some aspects of her statement, I suspect that Polanski wouldn't have been convicted of rape even if he had been prosecuted at the time since proof beyond reasonable doubt of his guilt does not appear to exist.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

He admitted drugging the girl.

I do still find it odd that he wasn't prosecuted for that in the end. I'm not sure what happened there - possibly one third of a quaalude was considered to small a matter to prosecute or something, but I really have no idea.

 

[Segnosaur]

He admitted drugging the girl.

I do still find it odd that he wasn't prosecuted for that in the end. I'm not sure what happened there - possibly one third of a quaalude was considered to small a matter to prosecute or something, but I really have no idea.

Not sure why you find that odd... the issue has been discussed long ago in this very thread.

The drug charges were dropped because Polanski agreed to plead guilty. The prosecutor decided to work out a plea deal in part to spare the victim any negative consequences that would happen, and in part to avoid a trial that there was a chance they could loose.

 

[johnny karate]

Okay. If that's what you're after then mine is:

Roman Polanski had unlawful sex with a 13 year old girl, pleaded guilty, and should serve the remainder of his sentence plus whatever extra you get for doing a runner under those circumstances.

And how does determining whether or not sodomy was involved, a topic about which you argued at great length, factor in?

 

[varwoche]

I do still find it odd that he wasn't prosecuted for that in the end. I'm not sure what happened there - possibly one third of a quaalude was considered to small a matter to prosecute or something, but I really have no idea.

That's how plea bargains work.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

And how does determining whether or not sodomy was involved, a topic about which you argued at great length, factor in?

It doesn't factor in to that topic at all, it's a distinct subtopic.

 

[johnny karate]

Swiss prison. Johnny, if various thieves, murderers and a variety of other thugs can get credit for time served, I see no reason not to give it to Polanski. So long as he serves, a few weeks off of an X month or X year sentence for his time in Switzerland does not seem to be worth carping about.

Polanski's current incarceration is not punitive, it's administrative. He has to stay put until the extradition process is completed, and since he's a bail-jumper, the only reasonable place for him to be kept is behind bars.

I'm not saying he won't be granted time served (nor do I claim to know what the law dictates in cases of jail time served in other jurisdictions), I'm just expressing the opinion that under the circumstances, I don't think he should be.