Obama and the Gay Military...

[Undesired Walrus]

There you go saying that I am scared again. Am I scared of of a gay guy having a chubby whilst gazing at me? No. Am I disgusted by it? Yes. Please stop associating this with combat because it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Combat requires maturity. Being a sissy about a simple woody isn't a sign of maturity.

Shouldn't have to just to accommodate gays.

Actually, it's to accomodate guys who can't bear to see a naked gay man.

Going with the shower situation, it felt to me like the gay guy was taking advantage of a situation to see a bunch of naked men and have sexual fantasies about it.

The guy needs a shower. I just can't see why you'd care. In a war in which you are fighting against murderous sociopaths who wish to destroy civil society and slaughter innocent civilians, it's not really a big deal, is it? If he started rubbing you down in the shower I'd be sharing your objection, but he's not likely to, is he?

Would you be offended by a women looking at you with diluted pupils and erect nipples?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Being black or being a woman is completely different than being gay. Sexual preference is a different issue than the color of your skin or what sex you are. And my source for assertion that gays would hinder our mission is from what I have already seen. I have known a few gay guys in the Army with me. They were seen as outcasts and no one really wanted to be around them. This breaks up unit cohesion. If you do not work together well as a group, then that hinders your ability to accomplish your mission.



Like I already said, being a woman or being black is completely different than the gay issue.

Well, you keep saying that, but I've missed where you explain why. It's seems like someone would be on good grounds to compare them. This quote of yours:

"I have known a few gay guys in the Army with me. They were seen as outcasts and no one really wanted to be around them. This breaks up unit cohesion. If you do not work together well as a group, then that hinders your ability to accomplish your mission."

Could be easily used to keep blacks and women out of the military. The thing is Quad, it's your problem, not theirs. Why should the army favour you over gays? What makes you so special?

 

[Quad4_72]

Combat requires maturity. Being a sissy about a simple woody isn't a sign of maturity.

You are failing pretty badly here at trying to make a correlation. Just digging the hole deeper.

Actually, it's to accomodate guys who can't bear to see a naked gay man.

Actually its the other way around. It would be for those who don't want a gay man starring at them and getting a hard on.

The guy needs a shower. I just can't see why you'd care. In a war in which you are fighting against murderous sociopaths who wish to destroy civil society and slaughter innocent civilians, it's not really a big deal, is it? If he started rubbing you down in the shower I'd be sharing your objection, but he's not likely to, is he?

Its not only about fighting with them in war. Its about all operations including garrison and FTXs in the states. But you DO want the most tight nit group of people to fight in a war and when it comes to watching each others back having bad blood against someone can be disastrous.

Would you be offended by a women looking at you with diluted pupils and erect nipples?

Depends on the woman. If she was attractive no I would not be offended because I am interested in women.

 

[Quad4_72]

Well, you keep saying that, but I've missed where you explain why. It's seems like someone would be on good grounds to compare them. This quote of yours:

"I have known a few gay guys in the Army with me. They were seen as outcasts and no one really wanted to be around them. This breaks up unit cohesion. If you do not work together well as a group, then that hinders your ability to accomplish your mission."

Could be easily used to keep blacks and women out of the military. The thing is Quad, it's your problem, not theirs. Why should the army favour you over gays? What makes you so special?

Like I said, being black or being a woman are COMPLETELY different things when compared to being gay. Being a woman or being black are physical traits that you were born with and cannot be changed. A gay man can choose at any time to not act feminine or dress like a homo if he so chooses to avoid harassment. Women and black people do not have that option and it is a disgrace to compare the struggles of women and black people to the struggles of trying to be accepted as gay.

 

[Sledge]

You don't make any sense. As far as you know, I might be gay. I just don't want to waste my time.

As you haven't clicked on the link, how do you know it'll waste your time? The only logical reason I can think of for you not clicking on a link presented as relevant to the discussion is that you fear what it contains. As the discussion is about homosexuality, it would be fair to conclude the link might contain a homosexual. Therefore, you are afraid of seeing a homosexual.

Oh, and I'm perfectly open to the possibility that you're gay. In fact, I'm pretty sure you are. Only a bigot or someone struggling with their sexuality could be so bothered by this issue. You're not a bigot now, are you? As you're so fond of reminding us, you're all in favour of gay marriage. Hedging your bets in case your true nature gets the better of you? I believe so.

 

[Dancing David]

It isn't like a job. You cannot equate the civilian world to the military world.

Sure whatever, keep talking about something else again.

A company that forced everyone, men or women, straight or gay to shower together would probably buckle under law suits.

Funny, wave arms and shift the goals posts.

All your reasons for not having homosexuals in the military are imaginary, and just as poorly formed as a belief in angels or bigfoot.

You don't cite data, you don't cite research, you cite youself.

Super.

 

[Dancing David]

Like I said, being black or being a woman are COMPLETELY different things when compared to being gay. Being a woman or being black are physical traits that you were born with and cannot be changed. A gay man can choose at any time to not act feminine or dress like a homo if he so chooses to avoid harassment. Women and black people do not have that option and it is a disgrace to compare the struggles of women and black people to the struggles of trying to be accepted as gay.

Great now prove your premise. Prove homsexuality is a choice, just like YOU choose to be hetero, don't you? You are equally attracted to men and wone right? Isn't that your theory?

BTW there are some very butch gay men, but you wouldn't know that would you?

They act just like other brawny men, except in the sack.
Being gay is not about being feminine, that is a hoot. It is about where your "park your car".

 

[Dancing David]

No, I a not a fecophiliac. So what are you saying? Since it is gross and not sexy, men and women should have co-ed restrooms. Fine. So why don't we?

Cultural more. You were the one talking about men being attracted to women in the bathroom. Not me, it is called reductio ad absurdem, I took your point and pointed out the fallacy.

You would not be attracted to a woman just because she was peeing the the toilet next to you. Now would you?

Point made.

And eventhough I am not a fecophiliac, why would that be less gross than two dudes having anal sex?

Again you are the one who was talking about sexual attraction as the basis for segregated bathrooms.

You don't understand what you say?

that is an interesting problem.

Are you cool with one thing and not cool with something else. Why? How is it you can set the bar with what is gross and what is not?

How is it that you don't understand the things that you say?

I take it by your anal sex comment that you think that the bathroom is a good place for sex as well.

Maybe you should consider what you write more carefully.

You said:
"People are comfortable about this not because of gender but because of who you are exposing yourself too and that is not a condition of gender but who is sexually attracted to you and who you are sexually attracted to. You do not want someone checking you out when you have to expose yourself."

And that just shows you did not think about what you say.

So who is exposing themselves there. eh?

 

[linusrichard]

Like I said, being black or being a woman are COMPLETELY different things when compared to being gay. Being a woman or being black are physical traits that you were born with and cannot be changed. A gay man can choose at any time to not act feminine or dress like a homo if he so chooses to avoid harassment. Women and black people do not have that option and it is a disgrace to compare the struggles of women and black people to the struggles of trying to be accepted as gay.

Got it. If blacks and women were able to disguise their femaleness and negritude, it would be totally rad to discriminate against them, too. Unfortunately, they are destined to bear their curse outwardly, so out of pity, we should ease up.

Of course, DADT isn't about "acting feminine or dressing like a homo," so that comment is a bit of a non sequitur. A totally butch manly man can get kicked out of the military if he likes dudes.

What is "dressing like a homo," anyway? I'm thinking about the gay guys I know (and I know several), and they all dress about the same as the straight guys I know (and I know several of those too). So what is that?

 

[SezMe]

Like I said, being black or being a woman are COMPLETELY different things when compared to being gay. Being a woman or being black are physical traits that you were born with and cannot be changed.

Are you of the belief that homosexuality is not innate? Do you remember when you chose to be heterosexual? Did you try both and make a conscience decision?

A gay man can choose at any time to not act feminine or dress like a homo if he so chooses to avoid harassment. Women and black people do not have that option and it is a disgrace to compare the struggles of women and black people to the struggles of trying to be accepted as gay.

First, you are correct that a homosexual man can chose how he acts. But, can he chose whether to get a woody at the sight of a naked male?

Discrimination based on race, gender or sexual orientation are equivalently wrong and the fight against that discrimination is of an equal nature.

 

[Nosi]

Most 'sex' is in the brain, (and that is fixed at birth,) so unless you are bisexual there's no changing orientation on the road of life.

 

[ponderingturtle]

No.

I won't.

I don't wanna.

So you are happy then expressing your ignorance to all, I am not suprised.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Well, to some extent yes, and to some extent no.

ETA: wanted to clarify that it was about the response to the "chicks with dicks" line, not transexuals. Gay men can't be simplified as "chicks with dicks", but they are closer in brain activity to heterosexual women in some ways than to hetero males and lesbians. Things rarely fall into a simple yes | no answer.

Your link has nothing to do with sexual or gender identity though,

 

[Undesired Walrus]

You are failing pretty badly here at trying to make a correlation. Just digging the hole deeper.

Do you disagree that you are immauture if you become a sissy over simply seeing a boner? Oh the horror! Almost compares to Zarqawi's beheadings.

Like I said, being black or being a woman are COMPLETELY different things when compared to being gay. Being a woman or being black are physical traits that you were born with and cannot be changed. A gay man can choose at any time to not act feminine or dress like a homo if he so chooses to avoid harassment. Women and black people do not have that option and it is a disgrace to compare the struggles of women and black people to the struggles of trying to be accepted as gay.

As others have said, you'd be fine with the discrimination that blacks and women experienced if only they managed to conceal their blackness/womaness? Blacks could do a Michael Jackson, why didn't you advocate that?

Why is the shoe always on the bigot, not the other way around? Once again Quad, why should the military side with your views? What makes you so special?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Like I said, being black or being a woman are COMPLETELY different things when compared to being gay. Being a woman or being black are physical traits that you were born with and cannot be changed. A gay man can choose at any time to not act feminine or dress like a homo if he so chooses to avoid harassment. Women and black people do not have that option and it is a disgrace to compare the struggles of women and black people to the struggles of trying to be accepted as gay.

Ah so we should just promote celibacy to all troops, make any relationship or mentioning of sex legaly enforceable with discharge from the military, treat everyone the same.

 

[ponderingturtle]

First, you are correct that a homosexual man can chose how he acts. But, can he chose whether to get a woody at the sight of a naked male?

Based on my nonsexual interactions with naked females, yes.

 

[Dancing David]

Ah so we should just promote celibacy to all troops, make any relationship or mentioning of sex legaly enforceable with discharge from the military, treat everyone the same.

Yup.

 

[quarky]

Overheard in a nursing home; two old ww2 vets talking:

"Hey, Charlie? Remember those pills they gave us during the war to keep us from thinking about sex?"

"Yeah, Jonesy, I remember them."

'Well, I think they're starting to work."

 

[Darth Rotor]

Great now prove your premise. Prove homsexuality is a choice, just like YOU choose to be hetero, don't you?

I think he was getting at behavior (gay) versus condition of birth (female, black). I didn't see him asserting that choice was the issue, but that a particular behavioral trait is the issue. But maybe I missed my guess there.

"I was born that way" hasn't been proved, nor disproved, as far as I can tell. The combination of nature and nurture seems to answer most of the mail: initial tool set/predilection plus environment, given that part of the environment is how sexuality is defined or accepted in a given society. This still leaves us with, for example, equal oppotunity lechers like Michael Stipe (his own descriptive of himself some years ago) and thus the bisexual preference.

DR

 

[GreyICE]

Behavior (gay) versus condition of birth (female, black). I didn't see him asserting that choice was the issue.

"I was born that way" hasn't been proved, nor disproved. It may be that a combination of nature and nurture: initial tool set plus environment, given that part of the environment is how sexuality is defined or accepted in a given society.

DR

Twin studies point strongly to either genetics or fetal hormone levels playing a large part. So while it might not have been proved, if one were to examine it on the preponderance of the evidence, it would much more likely be true than not.